What's your barrel length?
My buddies Tika 06' with a 20" barrel likes H414 165gr partition
My Remington 06' likes H4350 180gr partition 24" barrel.
His is sub .5 moa, mine is under .3, for 3 shots @ 100.
Help me choose a elk rifle!
- Thread starter JASON50CAL
- Start date
My buddies Tika 06' with a 20" barrel likes H414 165gr partition
My Remington 06' likes H4350 180gr partition 24" barrel.
His is sub .5 moa, mine is under .3, for 3 shots @ 100.
24” OEM barrel; 1:10 twist. Not quite sure exactly what Bergara calls the profile; somewhere between a featherweight sported and a varmint profile; call it a “light varmint profile”.
I’m half tempted to call them up and see if they’ll take it in for inspection.
Have you double checked tourqe on fasteners including scope?
I can't remember where i read it, but if your having issues with mono's, try a crimp.
I've mentioned it to several others & they have found it really helped.
Theory is since the mono's need a running start to help imprint the rifling on them, the crimp helps keep them seated for that fraction of a second to allow pressure to build.
Worth a try.
I've mentioned it to several others & they have found it really helped.
Theory is since the mono's need a running start to help imprint the rifling on them, the crimp helps keep them seated for that fraction of a second to allow pressure to build.
Worth a try.
Wow, disappointing. Asking the obvious, the bedding is ok, the throat is cut properly? It does seem that you're working that angle.
What powders have, you tried?
Yessir. Re-mounted base and rings, and torqued to spec using Wheeler torque driver. Tried two different scopes; Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 and Leupold Mark 4 LR/T 3.5-10x40. That's where I ruled out optic-related issues.
That's a valid point that I'll have to try. The thing about the GMX and the TTSX is that they have those pressure relieving grooves up the length of the bullet. When I load mine, the case mouth falls right into one of those grooves, where a crimp between those grooves would act almost like a cannelured bullet. I can't go longer without hitting the lands, so I'd have to then pull back, ultimately jumping futher than intended (though may not be unfavorable if it shoots, right
)...Unfortunately, this still doesn't address the the fact that factory loaded Federal Powershok and Fusion were not able to do much better. Having tried both factory-loaded and hand-loaded ammunition with the same results, I'm really starting to lean towards a barrel/bedding/truing issue.
Next step is to find some higher quality factory loaded ammo, preferably the Barnes 168 TSX that Bergara recommends for their in-house accuracy testing. If those don't shoot, then...
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I originally started all of this with a factory gun; only having mounted optics. After shooting the Powershok with not-so-great results (but still fortunately harvesting an elk), I reached out to Grayboe and ordered an adjustable Terrain stock for it. I did drop it straight in and didn't do any bedding, per Grayboe's recommendations. I did a simple "dollar bill" test, running it up under the barrel up to the action with zero interference issues. Torqued to spec using my Wheeler torque driver. Same results on paper without improvement. I haven't made my way into investigating the chamber yet, as I'm personally not fit with the right tools (or knowledge) of how to properly inspect the throat.
After ditching the Federal ammo, I started load development with the Hornady GMX using RL-17 and H4350. Ran velocities between 2,600-2,800 fps looking for nodes and found nothing acceptable. That's when I finally ditched the GMX and have since moved on to the Barnes TTSX. While not hopeful, this will be the final straw of development before contacting Bergara, or just seeking out a re-barrel. Unless of course anyone can point me in a direction to self-rectify the issue that I haven't already investigated.
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@JASON50CAL I hope this content is not hijacking your thread, sir. If anything, hopefully some insight to the not-so-fun woes of buying a new hunting rifle that doesn't shoot to one's expectations.
If it were me, I'd start by bedding the action, also check clearance of bolt handle to slot.
The next thing I would look at is components.
I've tried RL17, found it inconsistent day to day in my application.
Now H4350 shoots amazing in my 06', but not in my buddies... Hmmmm
Maybe you need to look at a faster and slower powder.
I had a Interarms 06' that didn't shoot h4350 or h4831, but loved Rl19 with 150's, and Rl22 with 180's.
Maybe look at H414/w760 for the lighter stuff, or Ramshot hunter.
Not being familiar with a 10 twist and light bullets especially monolithic I'd look at a heavier bullet of cup and core design sticking with H4350,4831.
I've really given thought to the bedding idea. It's that thing in the back of my mind that I know is a proactive approach that I've continued to back-burner through all of this.
I've gone back and forth with RL-17 and H4350. I've already ditched the RL-17 with the Barnes TTSX and am trying to hone the 4350. I've got about 0.2 lbs of RL-19 left that I could try, and about a pound of H4831SC. Unfortunately haven't found 760 in a while, as I have heard good feedback for it in 30-06.
This morning I was able to source some Hornady Precision Hunter 178gr ELD-X. Before I continue ANY load development, I'm going to drop the barreled action back into the Bergara stock, and shoot the ELD-X. If it doesn't shoot to Bergara's accuracy guarantee (below from their website), I'll send it back to them first to address.
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I hope to not offend by a thread hijacking.
Ok at the risk of being dragged out and hung. I'll place some facts in this post. I have 5 custom hunting rifles, a new AR15 in 6MM ARC, a 450 Marlin bolt gun built by Mike Burris on a Mauser action with a shilen air guage barrel, a Howa 1500 in 223 with some tweaking, a 6MM Remington on a 700 action, (I can't remember the smyth) and a 358 Norma Magnum completely built on a Remington 03 action by Harry McGowan.
The 6MM Remington, the 358 Norma Magnum and the 450 all have pressure points on the barrels.
The 450 is a dangerous game rifle but at 50 yards with 500 grain bulletts at 2,000 FPS prints pretty much 1 ragged hole until I'm no longer able to hold it.
The 358 and 6MM Remington run around 1 1/16" at 300 yards with top pressure loads. A 250 grain Hornady at 3,200 FPS and a 75 grain VMAX at 3,900 FPS respectively.
All the other custom rifles have floated barrels.
I was recently working on 2 rifles in 30-06 and 1 in 6.5x55. They were shooting all over the place, 4" at 100 yards, damn near off the paper at 300 yards.
The one 06 is a Remington Pattern 17 over 100 years old, the stock was binding, I fixed that with a bit of improvement.
The other 06 is a 43 Smith Carona 03A3, again some stock binding, I fixed that with some improvement.
The 1944 6.5x55 had a synthetic stock that was a bad fit and of course the stepped barrel. I touched up the stock with a little improvement.
Now I write something then run, hide, duck and cover.
I applied a pressure point to the end of each rifles forearm. Now all 3 rifles shoot 3 1/2" at 300 yards and sometimes a bit better with fairly stiff loads.
@David Milisock , while maybe unconventional, no one ever improves without testing the waters, am I right?! ;D I read some articles a while back about adding pressure points. Not something I know enough about to have an opinion one way or another, so take my perception with a grain of salt; I hope to learn something new today.
What I remember from the article/forum was that Remington had tried using pressure points in their stocks for "first shot accuracy" in a certain line of hunting rifles (and possibly abandoned the concept after unfavorable test results). Some people had experimented using shims or derlin screws coming up from the forearm applying pressure to the underside of the barrel. A noble idea for lightweight pencil barrels maybe? What personally comes to mind is thermodynamics and the slight changes to materials through hot and cold weather changes. By not having a barrel free-floated, seems like there could be an inherent risk in shimming or pressure-pointing a barrel; imagine zeroing a rifle in the fall when it's 70-90 degrees (at least here in NM), then hunting with it in December when its 30-50 degrees. That early fall zero may not yield the same results deep into winter during a hunt. Again, I have ZERO experience personally doing this; merely inquiring as to the normalcy and reliability in doing this as compared to skim bedding and maintaining a free-floated barrel.
What I remember from the article/forum was that Remington had tried using pressure points in their stocks for "first shot accuracy" in a certain line of hunting rifles (and possibly abandoned the concept after unfavorable test results). Some people had experimented using shims or derlin screws coming up from the forearm applying pressure to the underside of the barrel. A noble idea for lightweight pencil barrels maybe? What personally comes to mind is thermodynamics and the slight changes to materials through hot and cold weather changes. By not having a barrel free-floated, seems like there could be an inherent risk in shimming or pressure-pointing a barrel; imagine zeroing a rifle in the fall when it's 70-90 degrees (at least here in NM), then hunting with it in December when its 30-50 degrees. That early fall zero may not yield the same results deep into winter during a hunt. Again, I have ZERO experience personally doing this; merely inquiring as to the normalcy and reliability in doing this as compared to skim bedding and maintaining a free-floated barrel.
I don't want to BS you, well maybe a little as I place my sand bags around my bunker and load up my mags to defend myself from the free float righteous hoards.
I'm a if it works kind of guy. My 6MM Remington is a factory gun with a factory replacement varmint barrel replaced and action worked by a Smyth. It always had a pressure point. It sits in my cabinet until wanted, it has done this for over 30 years. I pull it out, patch the barrel, put a shot in the dirt bank and into the field to shoot. Do. I miss? Yep, sometimes I do but unfortunately I cannot blame the rifle. No matter what time of year at 300 yards it places the first shot where I want and depending on how far my wife has her foot up my butt the next 4 shots within about an inch.
The same can be said for my 358 Norma Magnum, first shot at 300 where I aim, next 4 within about an inch. That rifle has a custom cut barrel channel. A few decades ago I was gifted 2 elk tags to a population control hunt by a client, I pulled the rifle, patched the barrel placed one in a dirt bank and fired for zero in PA at about 50 degrees. Next day I boarded a corporate jet and flew West to 15 degree temperatures and about an easily 3,000 feet higher elevation. On site I left the rifle in the cold vor an hour or so and fired for zero, it was very close, well within my wife had her foot up my butt zone. Within 24 hours I bagged 2 elk, 1 at a little over 400 yards and another at a tad over 600, had a meal and flew home. BORING! Not really hunting.
Except for some pain nerves I've not killed crap with my 450.
The same kind of performance from my Remingtons can be found with my Howa and it has a floated barrel.
When all cards have been played, bedding, sliding paper under the barrel checking for tigh spots, action and barrel checked and all have checked out.
I resort to sliding some paper under the barrel in increasing thickness and pick a spot near the end. Usually I use a paper shim as a test, maybe a matchbook cover folded over in addition to the free space for pressure, it's easy to remove and there's no damage. If it works I replace the paper with a high temperature gasket compound. If it doesn't work I usually curse and get some coffeel On these older rifles there was quite a bit of space to fill.
When I saw Barnes' technical load data list 0.150" jump I did a double-take. But you're right. I definitely have room to back further off the lands.
I didn't know that about the Ruger rifles, thanks.
Jesus there's so much to try! Oh that's right it's what we do.
If it ain't broke, break it so you can have a reason to spend money to make it better than before.
Please keep us informed of your progress and good luck.
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