• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Help for a new shooter.

The "theories" of 50/200 and 25/100 are rules of thumb. They're valuable because they hopefully keep guys with a new rig from burning a bunch or even all of their ammo trying to hit an 8.5X11" target at 100 yards. I've watched it often enough to know it happens a lot.

From the looks of your target it's unlikely the ammo is a major contributor. The factory claimed velocity will probably be reduced because of the 16" tube. If that includes a flash hider it'll drop even more. I've shot quite a lot of Tula ammo through AR-15's and for the price it's pretty good stuff. I would expect 2-3 MOA and you're not far from that. The 1-4X scope won't help things either.

When you're calculating be sure to use the scope centerline to rifle bore as input for scope height. You used 2.5" which seems like a lot but I've no idea how the thing is bolted on.

Where are you from in Scotland? A close friend - "mate" - is in Inverness.
 
The variety of short yardage/longer yardage zero working, also depends on sight height above the barrel centerline.

Yes? No?
So when I run it through applied ballistics at a height of 2.4 inches 50 and 200 are dead on zero in terms of trajectory (16 inch 1:8 barrel, 3000 fps). If I drop the height to 1.9 it changes but ever so slightly. It would seem that the trajectory of the bullet is similar at 50 and 200. The height of the scope only changes the angle ever so slightly. To be zero’d at 50 and be almost a foot lower at 200 would point out either something wrong with the ammo/barrel combo or shooting itself - however being able to dial down 8 inches and then consistently hit then points to the ammo. I think that zeroing at 200 will help and then he’s going to need to try another type of ammo. But to answer his initial question, yes the 50/200 zero works but its always better to zero at the longer distance because the error will always be smaller at the shorter distance.
 
So when I run it through applied ballistics at a height of 2.4 inches 50 and 200 are dead on zero in terms of trajectory (16 inch 1:8 barrel, 3000 fps). If I drop the height to 1.9 it changes but ever so slightly. It would seem that the trajectory of the bullet is similar at 50 and 200. The height of the scope only changes the angle ever so slightly. To be zero’d at 50 and be almost a foot lower at 200 would point out either something wrong with the ammo/barrel combo or shooting itself - however being able to dial down 8 inches and then consistently hit then points to the ammo. I think that zeroing at 200 will help and then he’s going to need to try another type of ammo. But to answer his initial question, yes the 50/200 zero works but its always better to zero at the longer distance because the error will always be smaller at the shorter distance.
I measured the height of the scope at 2.5” and the barrel has a 1:7 twist. I’m going to try different ammo and if I get the same result I’ll just resign myself to the fact that I’ll never be a sharpshooter.
 
I measured the height of the scope at 2.5” and the barrel has a 1:7 twist. I’m going to try different ammo and if I get the same result I’ll just resign myself to the fact that I’ll never be a sharpshooter.
Nah - you will figure it out. Just take it a step at a time. Its these kinds of problems that make us better shooters. Happened with me with my hand guns. Now Im just plain bad - before I was outright shitty but at least I identified the problem and am working on it. Lol. Zero at 200 and then see where you are. Then try another type of ammo but remember that if your initial ammo is off, you will need to zero it again (at 200). What kind of rest are you shooting off? A bipod, a front rest, sling?
 
I measured the height of the scope at 2.5” and the barrel has a 1:7 twist. I’m going to try different ammo and if I get the same result I’ll just resign myself to the fact that I’ll never be a sharpshooter.
The first thing I would do is shoot it again at 50 yards now that the zero is adjusted for 200. You'll probably find it's fairly close at both distances. The 50/200 "rule" isn't exactly right for most of rifle/scope/ammo combo's but it's fairly close.

If you still think it's an ammo problem I'll send you a PM with a pretty fair deal on excellent stuff.
 
The first thing I would do is shoot it again at 50 yards now that the zero is adjusted for 200. You'll probably find it's fairly close at both distances. The 50/200 "rule" isn't exactly right for most of rifle/scope/ammo combo's but it's fairly close.

If you still think it's an ammo problem I'll send you a PM with a pretty fair deal on excellent stuff.
Thanks Dave, I’ll try it as you say. I’m trying to up my skills before my son-in-law visits next year as he is a sniper instructor with the British Army. I’m sure my 200 yard shot will impress the hell out of him lol,lol.
 
Nah - you will figure it out. Just take it a step at a time. Its these kinds of problems that make us better shooters. Happened with me with my hand guns. Now Im just plain bad - before I was outright shitty but at least I identified the problem and am working on it. Lol. Zero at 200 and then see where you are. Then try another type of ammo but remember that if your initial ammo is off, you will need to zero it again (at 200). What kind of rest are you shooting off? A bipod, a front rest, sling?
I am using a bipod and sand bags for the stock. The sand bags are not ideal as they move quite a bit.
 
What are you using for a rest ? You need a decent front rest and rear bag are you canting the gun how much elevation adjustment is left. I can’t stress consistency enough. If you don’t reload your own the try and find a couple boxes of match ammo
 
What are you using for a rest ? You need a decent front rest and rear bag are you canting the gun how much elevation adjustment is left. I can’t stress consistency enough. If you don’t reload your own the try and find a couple boxes of match ammo
I have a bipod on the hand-guard and sandbags.
 
What are you using for a rest ? You need a decent front rest and rear bag are you canting the gun how much elevation adjustment is left. I can’t stress consistency enough. If you don’t reload your own the try and find a couple boxes of match ammo
I asked same question, he has a sandbag and bipod. I know that for my precision rifles I could not break .25 MOA until I went to a proper front rest and rear bag that matched my rifle - this allowed for the rifle to move back perfectly straight. However, he is shooting of something steady that a zero at 200 and then shooting at 50 will let him know if its the ammo or him. If he’s pretty close to the bullseye then its him at 200 - maybe the rifle is canted, or anticipated the shot. If it consistently shoots high then its the ammo. However it seems that when he dialed down at 200 yards, was hitting the target where it was intended so it could be a case of bad ammo. We shall see.

Iam1964 - go shoot already the suspense is killing me
 
I asked same question, he has a sandbag and bipod. I know that for my precision rifles I could not break .25 MOA until I went to a proper front rest and rear bag that matched my rifle - this allowed for the rifle to move back perfectly straight. However, he is shooting of something steady that a zero at 200 and then shooting at 50 will let him know if its the ammo or him. If he’s pretty close to the bullseye then its him at 200 - maybe the rifle is canted, or anticipated the shot. If it consistently shoots high then its the ammo. However it seems that when he dialed down at 200 yards, was hitting the target where it was intended so it could be a case of bad ammo. We shall see.

Iam1964 - go shoot already the suspense is killing me
Lol, I’m going to try and get out to the range tomorrow.
 
Hi guys, so managed to get back out to the range today and took the advice given and zeroed the rifle at 200 yards. Wow….what a difference.
I used 62gr green tips to zero and you can see the results in the first pic. I then tried 55gr Winchester ammo and again I was hitting the target. I finally tried the Tula ammo and again I was hitting the target but it was not as consistent, but I’m still pretty happy with it.
When I then went back to the 50 yard target I was nailing the bulls eye probably 7 out of 10 shots.
Thanks so much for the help! You guys are awesome.
 

Attachments

  • 1F2F3B79-68AE-4B79-A58D-D3E0A1900300.jpeg
    1F2F3B79-68AE-4B79-A58D-D3E0A1900300.jpeg
    240 KB · Views: 6
  • F84F6466-BDAE-4AFD-A229-26F23BC8551C.jpeg
    F84F6466-BDAE-4AFD-A229-26F23BC8551C.jpeg
    325.3 KB · Views: 6
  • 294FC041-3B30-4028-9284-8060C6613B93.jpeg
    294FC041-3B30-4028-9284-8060C6613B93.jpeg
    267.6 KB · Views: 5
Hi guys, so managed to get back out to the range today and took the advice given and zeroed the rifle at 200 yards. Wow….what a difference.
I used 62gr green tips to zero and you can see the results in the first pic. I then tried 55gr Winchester ammo and again I was hitting the target. I finally tried the Tula ammo and again I was hitting the target but it was not as consistent, but I’m still pretty happy with it.
When I then went back to the 50 yard target I was nailing the bulls eye probably 7 out of 10 shots.
Thanks so much for the help! You guys are awesome.
Thats awesome. Great job.
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
166,251
Messages
2,214,872
Members
79,496
Latest member
Bie
Back
Top