Need Help with Revolver Wrist Breaking

[Kittitas George]

I believe it. I've dabbled in archery but never pushed to really do anything with it. Many of the techniques between firearms and bows cross over pretty directly.

I'm going to take the opportunity to add a souple of things:

I should have added in my post above one other technique that may help: Get used to starting building pressure on the trigger, and use a constant pressure buildup through release. Once you get that down, you can start your release, and then ignore trigger control and switch your concentration to keeping the sights aligned where you want; the shot will go whenever, and you won't be as focused on exactly when that is.

And learn to shoot your wobble; don't try to time the shot or be too precise - that just leads to trouble.

Live firing you can tell a lot by how the recoil feels when the shot goes: a muddy, indistinct recoil means that you were probably moving on the shot. A correctly released shot will feel like someone smacked the muzzle with a hammer - a short, sharp recoil impulse.

Hope this helps.

I want to thank everyone for all the helpful replies. I need to print them and put them in my revolver file. I believe the problem is me, not the gun's sight adjustment. I'm not Roy Rogers or Clint Eastwood (I've known Clint for 72 years, but haven't seen him lately) but I shot much better when I was younger. I'll make up some lighter loads in 38, try to get out more and do some dry firing. Winter is just around the corner here in the valley, we have snow on the higher hills. Time to install the ATV plow.
Thank you, for the great help, George

 

[divingin]

I want to thank everyone for all the helpful replies. I need to print them and put them in my revolver file. I believe the problem is me, not the gun's sight adjustment. I'm not Roy Rogers or Clint Eastwood (I've known Clint for 72 years, but haven't seen him lately) but I shot much better when I was younger. I'll make up some lighter loads in 38, try to get out more and do some dry firing. Winter is just around the corner here in the valley, we have snow on the higher hills. Time to install the ATV plow.
Thank you, for the great help, George

Interesting. I knew a guy (bartender/server) who was Eastwoods wife's (Dina Ruiz) younger brother.

Let us know how the shooting goes.

 

[ELR LVR]

I'm trying to shoot a S&W 686 w/5" barrel. At 20 yards the POI is 16" low. The "fix it" chart says I'm breaking my wrist, is there a book, manual, pamphlet explaining how to correct this problem. I tried shooting with my hand supported, still shooting low. I also shot my S&W M-27 and I was shooting low the same amount. I don't remember that gun ever shooting low when using it a few years back. I have a HUVIZ front sight and an XS rear sight, both are factory height, on the 686. I can see these better than the factory sights with the 83 year old eyes. The last notes I have on shooting the M-27 are from 2013, have I gone down hill that far? I certainly don't want to shoot 16" low on a Mammoth or T-Rex.

I shot 44 mag for years,
The method I developed was to allow my elbow to break at the joint to absorb recoil
, not the wrist bend, but let the elbow bend
try that, You do not have to lock your elbow and it should be slightly bent to start
my wrist stays aligned during the recoil event for follow through. but my whole forearm recoils back with the gun, while I try to keep my bicep part of my arm in place
as opposed to allowing your whole arm to rotate upward at the shoulder
This method will allow for great accuracy, IE: easy 100 yd hits
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You might also be anticipating recoil and compensating by throwing your wrist down right before the trigger breaks to try and compensate for the recoil, - this is common, but must be addressed.
It dont matter how good you aim, if you move the gun the instant you pull the trigger right?
Forget the recoil and how much it recoils, let it recoil, just allow the gun to rotate your forearm
by allowing it to rotate at the elbow joint, its a lever and pivot point system.
This method will act like a shock absorber and also allow for more accurate follow up shots by simply lowering your forearm back into position
The pistol is part of an extention of your forearm, remaining in line with it
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the opposite would be called "Limp Wristing" or allowing the wrist to break upward upon recoil
this can be witnessed when someone fires a semi auto pistol without keeping the wrist straight and rigid
the wrist breaks upward absorbing the recoil which should have been transmitted to the slide to allow it to cycle and operate fully.
Dont do that neither ok, keep your wrist sturdy
-------
Also if you develop flinching (anticipate recoil) switch back to a 22 pistol and work that out
then immediately go back to the Larger Handgun while you have the bugs worked out to solidify your technique into muscle memory.

 

[swd]

Dry fire practice. LOTS of it every day! After a few weeks split it in half, morning and evening. Work up to at least 100 a day. If you commit and stay with it in a month you'll see a huge difference. And in 3 months you'll shocked at what it will do for you. Over time work weak hand practice in too.

 

[Sundown]

Had the same thing happen to me. I was shooting a recent buy of a competition 45 ACP. Bullets POI was way low on the target. Took it back to the seller and told him the barrel was shot-out. He asked what ammo I was using, I said Winchester 45 ACP. He suggested I use a different Manufacturer. I did and POI was right on. I measured the Winchester bullet dia. and it was .44" not .452 like it was supposed to be. That was 20 years ago and I haven't bought Winchester ammo since. Good luck on your Journey.

 

[TAJ45]

TRY....."Do SOME dry firing"? Of all the times this has been mentioned.....this IS the key. The repetition will ingrain the "feel" in your head and you will then know what you did before seeing the results on tgt.
Don't miss the point re dry firing. Stabilize the grip, actuate the trigger separately, ignore the elbow bend advice. I have never ever seen any shooter or instructor of any quality utilize this much less teach it.
Taking a weekend class with the Army Marksmanship BE Team, Miss State IPSC champion allowed me to partner w him for team events, being instructed by Clint Smith, and another Gunsite instructor on 3 different occasions......never been taught that or have instructed that method to students myself. No hard feelings, just less than stellar advice.
Tom
NRA Life '76

 

[Tedk]

I have a S&W 586. When first purchased it, the highest I could shoot was 14" to 16" low, off a bench with sandbags. I called the dealer and he said to replace the rear sight blade to the other size. I called Smith and they sent the one I needed. Some competitions level off the sights on the shoulders. The X is down below in the center of the torso.
Good luck

 

[Hipshoot]

Pull the trigger harder----it will increase the velocity and the point of impact will be higher!

Hip

 

[divingin]

Pull the trigger harder----it will increase the velocity and the point of impact will be higher!

I was shooting rifle a couple of lanes away from 3 younger (than me) guys with a new AR. Had to help them with some things (don't push ammo in then back, make sure the mag is actually seated, don't ride the charging handle forward, etc.) Eventually they got the thing running. I guess they had a light strike, they successfully got the round ejected, and I heard the owner of the rifle say "Look at this, the primer didn't hit very hard. That's why it didn't go off. Maybe I didn't pull the trigger hard enough; I don't know."

 

[Kittitas George]

Like others mentioned there is good chance you are breaking/dropping you wrist when you think the trigger will break.

Try taking shot single action (manually cock trigger for each shot) to reduce trigger pull.

If you reload then make some “powder puff” loads going 650-700fps. Almost no recoil on my 4” 686 so should help get past the mental flinch.

I've been giving all these suggestions a lot of thought. I've decided to to load up some 'powder puff' loads and try to correct my problem with the gun I want to shoot, instead of using a 22 revolver. I can load a lot of 38-357 for the price of a used S&W revolver. I ordered some 125gr. bullets. Does a real good loading manual exist for just cast bullets. I don't feel my Lyman 51st has enough information. Also is there a source for the Military handgun manual. At 83 years old I don't want to re-up to get one. I've only used Unique and 2400 powders in my pistols, any suggestions for something newer that may work better or cleaner. I don't know anyone that can help me, maybe I'll find someone at the range that is knowledgeable.

 

[Oso]

I've been giving all these suggestions a lot of thought. I've decided to to load up some 'powder puff' loads and try to correct my problem with the gun I want to shoot, instead of using a 22 revolver. I can load a lot of 38-357 for the price of a used S&W revolver. I ordered some 125gr. bullets. Does a real good loading manual exist for just cast bullets. I don't feel my Lyman 51st has enough information. Also is there a source for the Military handgun manual. At 83 years old I don't want to re-up to get one. I've only used Unique and 2400 powders in my pistols, any suggestions for something newer that may work better or cleaner. I don't know anyone that can help me, maybe I'll find someone at the range that is knowledgeable.

My favorite powder puff load for my 686 is 160gr RN Coated lead over of Trail Boss. The bullet weight was to meet power factor for IDPA. By all means use a lighter bullet.

I tested a few powders for taking into consideration recoil impulse, muzzle flip, and clean burning. Based on my criteria the top 3 powders were TrailBoss, Bullseye, and Titegroup. All three of these powders were extremely close. Unfortunately, TrailBoss is hard to find so either Bullseye or Titegroup will work great and are noticeable improvements over Unique.

The fact that at 83yo you are even motivated to get out of the house is a win! Shoot what makes you happy and adjust/tweak your loads to match your comfort… no need to put undue mileage on your bones and joints. Go lightly and have fun

 

[Rwfish]

I've been giving all these suggestions a lot of thought. I've decided to to load up some 'powder puff' loads and try to correct my problem with the gun I want to shoot, instead of using a 22 revolver. I can load a lot of 38-357 for the price of a used S&W revolver. I ordered some 125gr. bullets. Does a real good loading manual exist for just cast bullets. I don't feel my Lyman 51st has enough information. Also is there a source for the Military handgun manual. At 83 years old I don't want to re-up to get one. I've only used Unique and 2400 powders in my pistols, any suggestions for something newer that may work better or cleaner. I don't know anyone that can help me, maybe I'll find someone at the range that is knowledgeable.

If your willing to try a new powder I find VV N320 is tough to beat. Allot of load info available, VERY clean burning, predictable soft recoil, great for many calibers and projectile weights..

 

[Krogen]

I've been giving all these suggestions a lot of thought. I've decided to to load up some 'powder puff' loads and try to correct my problem with the gun I want to shoot, instead of using a 22 revolver. I can load a lot of 38-357 for the price of a used S&W revolver. I ordered some 125gr. bullets. Does a real good loading manual exist for just cast bullets. I don't feel my Lyman 51st has enough information. Also is there a source for the Military handgun manual. At 83 years old I don't want to re-up to get one. I've only used Unique and 2400 powders in my pistols, any suggestions for something newer that may work better or cleaner. I don't know anyone that can help me, maybe I'll find someone at the range that is knowledgeable.

Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook is good. It serves up more cast loads than their #51. Alliant and Hodgdon online data have a few cast loads.

 

[divingin]

I've been giving all these suggestions a lot of thought. I've decided to to load up some 'powder puff' loads and try to correct my problem with the gun I want to shoot, instead of using a 22 revolver. I can load a lot of 38-357 for the price of a used S&W revolver. I ordered some 125gr. bullets. Does a real good loading manual exist for just cast bullets. I don't feel my Lyman 51st has enough information. Also is there a source for the Military handgun manual. At 83 years old I don't want to re-up to get one. I've only used Unique and 2400 powders in my pistols, any suggestions for something newer that may work better or cleaner. I don't know anyone that can help me, maybe I'll find someone at the range that is knowledgeable.

If you have, or know someone who will loan you, a chronograph, most target loads will run in the 600-800 fps range. I've known people that run loads slower than that.

Unique may work, but I think you may benefit from a faster powder. There's a reason Bullseye was THE powder for bullseye shooters for a really long time. The VV powders tend to be very clean, but may need some pressure to be really clean. 2400 is (as far as I'm aware) geared more towards heavier loads in most pistols. You probably want something in the first 40 or 50 entries in the attached chart for light target work.

I've never looked, but castboolits.gunloads.com is supposedly the place to go for cast loads. I personally work up mine by feel, performance and velocity (the performance being the least of my worries, as I am not exactly the most consistent shooter in the world.)

 

[Kittitas George]

Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook is good. It serves up more cast loads than their #51. Alliant and Hodgdon online data have a few cast loads.

I ordered it, s/b here on Sunday. I also ordered some 125 gr. Acme bullets that I'll load in 38 special cases. I have some Unique and 2400. I used to load heavy bullets in my 357 and 41 mag using 2400, but it doesn't work as well with light bullets. I just gotta shoot more. With the 41 mag I increased the bullet weight from 200 to 210 gr. the recoil difference was substantial for a 5% weight increase. I'm hoping that reducing the weight for the S&W 686 will help me stop breaking my wrist. I'll be ready to challenge Jerry Miculek come spring. Always think positive.

 

[brokeasajoke]

I have an older lymans cast handbook and reference it often. It has some pretty stout loads listed too. Castboolits is the place to go for all things cast.