Been loading for a while, loading 45acp bullets weight is 185gr accurate #5 calls for 8.6 to 9.6 max loaded about 10 bullets started loading different bullets weight is 230gr loaded a couple and kept the same amount of powder but 230gr calls for 7.5 to 8.5 max load for the 230 loading grains were 9.0 .5 over the max dump the 2 heavier bullets?
Heavier bullet less powder
- Thread starter 9mmAnimal
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TTE
Gold $$ Contributor
Boom
SSL
Gold $$ Contributor
Stop, take a deep breath and then thank the responders for their proper advice. Now go the the nearest loading reference and study it religiously. Not trying to be an a$$, but you really need schooling in the absolute basics. If you can find someone locally to mentor you that would be better yet.
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
I’ll cut across the grain and just say set them aside for now. For multiple reasons. The answers of read a book and get some help are the best ones given. The knee jerk “you’ll blow yourself up” are let’s say less than educational.
First problem is you have not provided near enough information for any body to offer any other advice than, don’t shoot them. Complete load information, make of brass, exact bullet and what you’re shooting them in.
Lacking that, the only safe advice is don't shoot them, until we know more, and always start low and work up.
The data you provided is pretty standard 45 acp load data, but.....
There is 45 acp+P data. Heavy loads for strong action pistols. Without knowing what you’re shooting, no way to tell if it’s safe to even consider those loads. That’s one indication you’re loading on the edge of safety.
Hodgdon data for 45 ACP +P lists 5 loads with your combination #5 and a 230 grain bullet. Max load is between 8.1 and 9.1. In theory you might be safe, but you don’t want to go there until you first determine if whatever your shooting from is rated for +P loads.
Then you need to very careful of your bullet choice and seated depth. When simply changing bullet profile can amount to a 12% change in max load, you’re living on the edge. Not a good place to be without some experience to guide you.
Stay safe
First problem is you have not provided near enough information for any body to offer any other advice than, don’t shoot them. Complete load information, make of brass, exact bullet and what you’re shooting them in.
Lacking that, the only safe advice is don't shoot them, until we know more, and always start low and work up.
The data you provided is pretty standard 45 acp load data, but.....
There is 45 acp+P data. Heavy loads for strong action pistols. Without knowing what you’re shooting, no way to tell if it’s safe to even consider those loads. That’s one indication you’re loading on the edge of safety.
Hodgdon data for 45 ACP +P lists 5 loads with your combination #5 and a 230 grain bullet. Max load is between 8.1 and 9.1. In theory you might be safe, but you don’t want to go there until you first determine if whatever your shooting from is rated for +P loads.
Then you need to very careful of your bullet choice and seated depth. When simply changing bullet profile can amount to a 12% change in max load, you’re living on the edge. Not a good place to be without some experience to guide you.
Stay safe
Steve Donlon
Gold $$ Contributor
AA # 5 powder goes ballistic fast. Not the powder to overload. I quit using it long ago, not much wiggle room.
Some punctuation would make this much easier to comprehend. Get a mentor before you get hurt. Common sense says, as bullet weight goes up, powder charge goes down. Really don't want to see you in the "kaboom" section of the daily bulletin.
Paul
Rank Amateur
Gold $$ Contributor
Trying to be helpful. Yes, typically heavier bullet uses less powder in the same cartridge, loaded to the same COAL. The reason is that the heavier bullet is longer than the lighter bullet. So, there is more bullet inside the case when both are loaded to the same length. More bullet in the case equals less space, so higher pressure. You compensate by reducing the charge. The same effect occurs if you just shorten the COAL of the round you are loading.
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
True but doesn’t tell the whole story and can be misleading.
If you take the exact same bullet profile, I’m this case a 230 grain round nose, copper jacketed lead. Then duplicate the size and shape out of copper, you will have a bullet weighing around 180 grains that can be loaded to the exact same overall length, seated depth and jump.
Loaded with the same charge weight, the lighter bullet will reach a higher velocity. Maximum charge weight will be less for the heavier bullet.
With a 200 grain copper bullet, Barnes 200 XPB .827” compared to a Hornady 230 grain XTP lead core bullet at .630”, the copper bullet almost .200” longer. And in the example you described, it’s possible for the lighter bullet to actually have higher pressure at a lower charge.
All this is based on copper having a density about 80% of lead. Two cubes of the same dimension, if the lead cube weighs 100 grains, the copper will weigh 80.
Rank Amateur
Gold $$ Contributor
I’m not sure, but I think we’re actually agreeing. Of course, similar pressures with lighter projectiles will yield higher velocities. The point I was trying to make was only peripherally related to projectile weight. Rather, the point was that the same charge will yield higher pressure if contained in a smaller space. The smaller the space behind the bullet, regardless of bullet composition, the higher the pressure generated by the same charge.
Of course there are other factors involved. Very weak “neck tension”, things that reduce friction between bullet and neck, length of leade, etc. can have an effect on the absolute pressure generated, but the OP’s question was simply about a heavier bullet vs a lighter bullet (assuming “standard” compositions given the 185gr and 230gr masses quoted) and their relation to charge mass of a fast pistol powder.
Again, I think we’re agreeing...
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
Yes, agreeing and expanding.
Example of a Barnes 185 with essentially the same charge weight as Hodgdon for a 230 grain both being +P loads. This points out the need for complete load data needed to answer a question. 95% of the time (maybe more) substituting a light bullet for a heavy bullet, the heavy bullet charge weight is fine.
Also gives a good idea of what using rhe 200 grain Barnes, with Hodgdon 230 data might get you.
First of all, I want to echo the safety concerns and sound guidance provided above.
Now, as for loading the .45, my first question is what kind of handgun are you using, and second question is what kind of activity are you loading for?
Back in the day, I used to shoot a lot of IDPA with my 1911. I wanted to get my recoil down to a more manageable level and still meet power factor. To make a long story short, i ran many tests around lowering the powder charge instead of increasing it. In the end, I came up with a load consisting of 250gr SWC with 3.4gr of Titegroup (not a typeo). That gave me a chrono reading of appx 860fps which put me just over minimum power factor. In addition, I lowered my recoil and hammer springs slightly. My pistol cycled great and recoil was very very manageable. It was very accurate at the maximum distances one would find in and IDPA match but not much further.
Moral of the story is to develop your loads with a goal in mind.
Now, as for loading the .45, my first question is what kind of handgun are you using, and second question is what kind of activity are you loading for?
Back in the day, I used to shoot a lot of IDPA with my 1911. I wanted to get my recoil down to a more manageable level and still meet power factor. To make a long story short, i ran many tests around lowering the powder charge instead of increasing it. In the end, I came up with a load consisting of 250gr SWC with 3.4gr of Titegroup (not a typeo). That gave me a chrono reading of appx 860fps which put me just over minimum power factor. In addition, I lowered my recoil and hammer springs slightly. My pistol cycled great and recoil was very very manageable. It was very accurate at the maximum distances one would find in and IDPA match but not much further.
Moral of the story is to develop your loads with a goal in mind.
I think you are missing a very basic understanding of internal ballistics and gunpowder. For any given amount of powder in a case, a lighter bullet will accelerate faster than a heavier bullet. The ligher bullet therefor travels further at a lower pressure and the total volume of the chamber/barrel is increasing faster than with the heavy bullet hence the lighter bullet results in lower pressure than the heavier bullet. This is why heavier bullets will usually require lower loads than lighter loads. As others have noted bullet shape and seating depth also have a significant impact on pressure because bore diameter relative to the case volume is large.
Hope this helps.
Dang no need for everyone to be a jerk. Everyone makes mistakes. I stuck a couple cases, crushed 1 or 2, loaded 10 of a wrong charge and even had the correct charge on sticky note on the scale for safety. I had to pull bullets and more. Im positive those won't be my last mistakes either. You caught it and when you were unsure of something you asked for help, so all is well. Get a bullet puller for your press not that stupid hammer. Won't be the last time you need it. Learn from the mistake and adopt a new method to make sure it doesn't happen again, you know like a sticky note infront of you with the correct charge...
These good ole boys who think they are better than you cuz they been loading 50 years also made mistakes and maybe are just as dangerous as the newbie because they have gotten complacent and think their shit dont stink...
These good ole boys who think they are better than you cuz they been loading 50 years also made mistakes and maybe are just as dangerous as the newbie because they have gotten complacent and think their shit dont stink...
6MMsteve
Gold $$ Contributor
Just gotta be careful, I've done all kinds of things because I'm not real smart and get in a hurry, but I do a lot of triple checking anymore, write it down, study it, ask someone, someone will always help you even double chk their insight, always question everything, chk bullet wts, bullet dia, powder wt, powder label back chk all to a source of info, and it's good to have sources for reloading which are at your fingertips, most powder mfg have data online, but u can grab books, watch vids, chk online data...just don't get real comfortable and smug about it and u will be fine
Amen brother.
Who ever thought percussion and loaded brass was a match made in heaven ?
Once collet pullers were expensive but the Hornady offering changed that.
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