HEADSPACE QUESTION 6BR

[260Ravage]

I want to set the headspace on a new prefit barrel: What would be wrong with using a new Lapua brass in place of a ''go-gauge''? My thinking would be to fill the brass with epoxy,which in my tiny mind would give it the stoutness needed,so it would have not have any 'flex' to it. Please....I do not want to be 'blasted' for posing this question. I know I may be a dumb s**t, but please do not remind me in your response. Be nice. Thank you.
Terry :-\

 

[LR_Shooter]

there is a whole topic on this at savageshooters website
http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,29226.0.html

if you have access to it read it carefully, anyway you can, but you shouldn't, guess use electric tape instead of scotch.

 

[Heavies]

If you wanted headspace off a new case you could. People have done it, used a match book cover, duct tape, or whatnot to check no-go.
Is it the best way, doubt it... How could you be positive the case isn't compressing, the bolt can cam quite a lot of force on that brass. What about no-go? willing to bet your eyes on it?

I'd just spend the few bucks on a set of real go, no-go gauges, just for my peace of mind.

 

[fguffey]

“My thinking would be to fill the brass with epoxy,which in my tiny mind would give it the stoutness needed,so it would have not have any 'flex'

I am in the middle of reloaders that pull the “6mmBR” card when it comes to head space and fire forming. So? I can not help them, you? I do not know.

I make gages, one of the most boring conversations I can get into with those that cut chambers starts with '”SAMMY says....” I do not shoot gages I shoot ammo, to answer your question. Perfect, you are going to use a case instead of a go-gage, I would suggest you measure the length of the case from the head of the case to it’s shoulder first. The difference in length between a new unfired case and the go-gage is head space, the difference in length between the 30/06 head space go-gage and minimum length (full length sized) case is .005 thousands. The length of the case from the head of the case to it’s shoulder is .000, the length of the go-gage chamber is .005 for those that do not talk it to death.

I would form cases for a short chamber first because I would be cutting the chamber, those that use go-gages say “no one knows where they are when cutting a chamber, so check often? Check with what? So, I make short gages, some .017 thousands shorter than a go-gage length chamber.Those that do not get locked up when cutting a chamber can use a go-gage (that will not chamber) to determine ‘where the are’ and how far they have to go to finish the chamber (and I do not have enough ambition to convince them it can be done).

I will assume you are talking about the Savage with the barrel nut, I do not find it necessary to fill the case with with a filler that will harden, because I am a fan of transfers, standards and verifying I suggest you use more than one case and I suggest you full length size your cases first. Again, measure the length of the case from the head of the case to it’s shoulder, I am not a fan of fire forming, I form first then fire, after firing a formed case I eject a once fired case.

But if you desire immediate neighbor hood acceptance grease your bullets (cases), not necessary, form first then fire.

F. Guffey

 

[dantiff2]

I built my BR with the appropriate gage and set the head space about .001 from my go gage. On this "new" blue box of Lapua brass it's about .004-.005 shorter than my chamber so if you were to head space off this new unfired brass your die might not allow you to set the shoulder back.

Dan

 

[260Ravage]

Thanks to all for the input. All makes sense. I'm gonna break down and get a go-gauge.

 

[lloydx2]

Why not cut the die? (shorten it)

 

[fguffey]

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php/topic,3754346.195.html

Grind the die or grind the shell holder? Never necessary. Purchase a set of Redding Compitition shell holders? Never necessary. 14 more pages of Ed? Grease your bullets to fire form?

I form first then fire, I do not screw the barrel in and or out, I cut the chamber with a reamer.

F. Guffey

http://www.odcmp.org/1101/can.pdf

 

[bigedp51]

fguffey

The difference in length between a new unfired case and the go-gage is head space,

Could you tell us please what is head clearance Mr. fguffey the all wise and all knowing Headspace Master who forms first then fires.
(We should change your name to "Fluffy the headspace killer") :

Quote from SAAMI -

HEADSPACE
The distance from the face of the closed breech of a firearm to the surface in the chamber on which the cartridge case seats.

HEAD CLEARANCE
The distance between the head of a fully seated cartridge or shell and the face of the breech bolt when the action is in the closed position. Commonly confused with headspace.

(This means head clearance is the "air space" between the bolt face and the rear of the cartridge case and it is "NOT" called headspace, unless you are a commonly confused type person)

The real question Fluffy is if we grease your postings will they slide all the way back to your computer.

 

[DennisH]

Thanks to all for the input. All makes sense. I'm gonna break down and get a go-gauge.

WOW, after the last post I don't know if I wanna jump in, but everyone has an opinion! The above is very informative.

I don't want to talk you out of anthing, all the above post are good!

I know two well known shooters who only sets head clearance with fired brass and scotch tape. This is their GO and NO GO gauges.

I persoally use fired brass starting with accuring one from a friend. After setting the clearance I will use new brass and shoot twice, I use my fired brass to recheck my head clearance before I am satisfied!

Again, My Opinion/process that I learn from a mentor! I only do this on a Savage! :-\

I don't recommend anyone to follow this process.

 

[bigedp51]

DennisH

When "Fluffy" decided to bring up my name in a derogatory manor in this posting, a posting in which I had not said a word, I decided to fire a broadside and make "Fluffy's ears ring a little. If you haven't noticed fguffey posts a lot of "FLUFF" and doesn't post any solutions or answers, just fluff, so from now on his name is "Fluffy".

I would never recommend using a cartridge case as a headspace gage for a very simple reason.................you don't know how long it is. On top of this if you take a fired case and hit the case again with the firing pin the case will be approximately .001 shorter each time its hit by the firing pin. This is why the reloading manuals tell you not to shoot full loads in cartridge cases that were used for reduced loads. This is because the cases could be so short a full high pressure loading could cause a case head separation.

Below, a .243 GO gage, a RCBS Precision Mic and a fired case, the GO gage lets me know what minimum headspace is, and the Precision Mic lets me know how long my cases are before and after firing. Without headspace gages you have "NOTHING" to tell you how long your chamber actually is. My .243 chamber is .002 larger/longer than my Go gage and that is tight enough for anyone who uses standard resizing dies.

I use the headspace shims below to adjust my dies and for some reason Fluffy doesn't like it.

Plan "B" if you don't want to use shims....

On the Enfield rifle below I have set the headspace to .005 below minimum and .010 over maximum. (maximum emergency wartime headspace) At the normal maximum headspace of .074 you can have .016 head clearance, so on my .243 .002 longer than the GO gage is nothing.

 

[DennisH]

Thanks for clairifing BigEd,

I love the info you posted by the way! It's taught me something!

Dennis

 

[CaptainMal]

Loved those drawings/demonstrations. Sure makes the simple understandable.

Had me laughing as I thought of a "catch 22". If you were to headspace with a case you need a fired case. You can't fire the case and make it without having a properly headspaced chamber.

You could use a new case, like a friend with a bag of Winchester 25-06 brass. Right out of that bag most of his new cases were .012" undersize in headspace. In his proper chamber they blew out primers. Those new cases had to be fireformed to proper dimensions. Now to set a chamber off that new mess...

Interesting post.

 

[bozo699]

Big Ed,
Seriously you and your twin brother Fguffy have cases that need lubing don't you??
The Guffer wasn't being derogatory towards you, just wanted you to get involved and get that 1929 rifle bible out and show some lubing and headspace illustrations, now I could save you and guffer some trouble and paste your 14 page thread with over 7000 hits on lubing and headspacing with all the wonderful illustrations you gave us the first go around, I surly wouldn't want you getting carpel tunnel retyping all that drivel

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php/topic,3754346.0.html

Terry,
Save yourself some future headaches and buy yourself a $25 go gauge and a no-go if you can afford it, you could do what you ask but why risk anything when the tools you need to do the job right is readily available and inexpensive. now on a much more serious note, if you need some comedy in your life leave this thread open, Eddy will fill page after page with illustrations and funny one liners and Guffer,.....well Guffer,.. you won't have a clue what the Guffer is talking about but rest assured it will be comical also, or you could delete your thread and ask another question or just Cruz the archives and really learn something about your sport, the choice is yours of course, best of luck to you.
Wayne.

 

[DennisH]

PS: I just order my PTG go-no go guages because of this thread!!!!!!!

Dennis

 

[260Ravage]

Now to add misery to this tread: I'm gonna do it my way; with new brass. This is not my first rodeo: been there-done that. I am new to the 6br and thought maybe there was a secret or something on headspacing this caliber because of all the 'hoopla' I see concerning it. Thus my 'headspace question'. Who's to say the tolerances on the go-gauges are exact? They could be off 1 or 2 thousands?
Terry

 

[DennisH]

What do you use to set clearance on a 6brx

 

[260Ravage]

Yes, I wondered the same thing. My initial thoughts in rebarreling was to go with the 6brx. The fireforming was a hurdle,,,then the question of intitial headspacing came to mind. That's when i realized I suffered form 'operator headspace'. Hopefully someone will contribute that info and explain headspacing the brx.

 

[bozo699]

Yes, I wondered the same thing. My initial thoughts in rebarreling was to go with the 6brx. The fireforming was a hurdle,,,then the question of intitial headspacing came to mind. That's when i realized I suffered form 'operator headspace'. Hopefully someone will contribute that info and explain headspacing the brx.

260Ravage,
I bought the 6brx reamer and go-gauge from PT&G, set the head space up with the Gauge, I fire form using about 31.5 grains of Varget and a 100 grain FB bullet jammed .020+ that blows the case out pretty good but it takes a second firing to achieve fully formed brass for me, it is a fairly accurate load and I use it for practice on gongs and what not, same with second firing I use my bullet of choice (107SMK) my full load and practice reading the wind and smacking gongs after that I body size and bump the shoulders .001-.0015 and n/s about 2/3rds of the neck with about .001 neck tension and head for the match, hope this helps.
Wayne.

 

[bigedp51]

bozo699

I like you, you have the same warped sick sense of humor I have and I don't care if you competitive shooter grease your cartridge cases. BUT when someone shows up in a milsurp forum and tells people to grease their cartridge cases and shoot them in a 50 plus year old milsurp rifle then I tend to get a little bent out of shape.

Again bozo699 I do like you and I hope your barrel goes soft and limp and may all your reloads fizzle and go poof................

But lets face it bozo699, you will "NEVER" be as funny as Bigedp51.