Head spacing

[Metal God]

The difference from shell holdershell to shellholder is the deck hieght is cut deeper . So a stadard shell holder is .125 deep and the first comp shell holder is cut .127 deep the 2nd is cut .129 deep 3rd is cut .131 deep etc etc . Meaning the 5th comp shell holder will size a case cbtd .010 longer then a standard shell holder . Note you need to use a Redding standard shell holder to set the the die the first time . After that the die never need adjusting and you just switch out shell holders to for the desired shoulder bump .

 

[dellet]

Will someone please explain to me what the video is leaving out? He set the die to firm contact with the shell holder and doesn't get enough shoulder bump. Then changes shell holders without changing contact with the die.

What part of the competition shell holder is being machined to a different dimension to allow the brass to go further into the die? Is it the distance between the shell platform and the base (point of contact between the ram and the shell holder) ?. And how does this differ from placing say, a .002 shim between the shell holder and ram?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

If your chamber is tight, short, they are worthless unless you shorten your die or the thin the top of the normal shell holder.

The "0" or regular shell holder is the shortest, you can set the base to datum length longer, but not shorter. To go shorter, you would still need the feeler gauge under the case head.

 

[Metal God]

If your chamber is tight, short, they are worthless unless you shorten your die or the thin the top of the normal shell holder.

lol . that's kind of a silly statement or maybe a thank you captain obvious type of thing . haha

 

[dellet]

lol . that's kind of a silly statement or maybe a thank you captain obvious type of thing . haha

That all depends on if you are looking for the correct answer to the actual question asked or not.

Or just trying to look smart and put other people down that have legitimate questions

 

[Dusty Stevens]

We finally got somebody to explain why the comp shellholders are a waste of money. To get more bump they just cant do it. Ive never needed less bump and most off the shelf dies contact the shellholder before you even get enough bump

 

[Metal God]

The original question does not have anything about out a spec chambers although one of mine did and how the comp shell holders work well for long out of spec chambers .

Should you check the head spacing of every round you make.

I said no if you use the Redding competition shellholders correctly . I then went on to answer EVERY question asked about them . You come along and say NO , not if your chamber is so out of spec short no standard equipment will work to size a case properly for your chamber . Maybe I wrongly assumed OP already had set the die and the first couple cases are coming out correct . Why would you need to check your die setting or head space if your equipment doesn't even work properly for the task at hand , you shouldn't be using it .

Like I said before some of you sink your teeth in and just can't let go . We now have two people saying how they are a waste because they don't work on chambers so out of spec short NO equipment will work properly with out modification and some how I'm the one not making any sense LMAO

So we have two captains now in this thread .

 

[dellet]

Actually I came along and answered specific question, that I quoted in my post and you chose to mock. Probably because you did not read what was actually asked and responded to. Maybe it wasn't so obvious after all.

Here It is again,

What part of the competition shell holder is being machined to a different dimension to allow the brass to go further into the die?

The competition shell holders do not work that way as you well know.

 

[cw308]

I use the Shellholders , I'll try to explain how they work for me . My cases shorten from expansion , when I use the standard shellholder of .125 deck with full contact my cases are oversized by .004 I start with the #10 shellholder that has the lowest deck height .135 and working my way up untill .002 each shellholder until I reach my measurement . The important thing is knowing your chamber length or use the CBTD with a stripped bolt . Some posted it's a waste of money , I'm sure you can do the same thing in sizing by raising the notdie but not with full contact . To say it's a waste is pretty closed minded . It works great for me , if your way work that's fine but don't dunp on my parade .

 

[Metal God]

I answered that question in detail in post #67

What part of the competition shell holder is being machined to a different dimension to allow the brass to go further into the die?

I answered that question in detail in the very next post or post #67 . Yes they do if you start with the # 10 comp shell holder . If you then switch to the #8 your case will go into the die .002 further , if you then switch to the #6 shell holder your case will go in the die an additional .002 for a total of .004 from where you started . If you go to the #4 the case goes another .002 deeper into the die . The guy in the video specifically says and starts with the #10 and the question was posed after saying "I watched the video" . When I answered the question it was assumed that part of the video was understood . I'm very confused as to what's going on here . You may be right , I very well may have missed something because to me it just seems a few of you are just doubling down on your beliefs to the point of saying things that really don't make sense . Like the comp shell holders don't work if you have a chamber that no other standardized commercial equipment will works for ? OK fine there is nothing in the world that will work for your chamber with out modification . Why would anyone think the comp shellholders are any different , they're not magic

However here is a video demonstrating what is different about the Redding competition shellholder compared to a standard Redding shell holder . He talks a little slow but covers the real difference in first few minutes

 

[rwj]

I’m all for everyone doin what works for them! I look at as most dies have 14 pitch external threads, one complete rotation moves the die body up/down .071 inches (let’s make the math easy and use .072 inches). If one views the die face as a clock, a one hour incremental rotation moves the die up/down .006 inches, half of that moves it .003 inches. It doesn’t take long to make the needed adjustment. But if more hardware makes ya happy... go for it!

 

[Ned Ludd]

^^^This. It only takes about 5 degrees of rotation on a sizing die with a 7/8-14 thread in the press to change the bump by .001". That means if the die isn't tightened very close to the same amount every time, variance in the amount of shoulder bump will be observed. I'm sure there are a few other similar sources of error that may also account for bump variance observed in certain cases, rather than some innate property of the brass.

 

[cw308]

Thanks rwj but remember we are talking hard contact between die and shellholder, that's what I liked about the process. There are many ways to skin a cat . The problem I guess is when there is only one cat left , untill then , what ever floats your boat is fine .

 

[Metal God]

I’m all for everyone doin what works for them! I look at as most dies have 14 pitch external threads, one complete rotation moves the die body up/down .071 inches (let’s make the math easy and use .072 inches). If one views the die face as a clock, a one hour incremental rotation moves the die up/down .006 inches, half of that moves it .003 inches. It doesn’t take long to make the needed adjustment. But if more hardware makes ya happy... go for it!

Great point and how I did it for all my bottle neck case sizing until I learned there's no need to adjust the die if you have a SAAMI spec chamber by using the comp shell holders . I have since started using the Hornady lock rings but before that I used the type that screwed a bolt into the threads of the die to lock the ring . That at times would bind the lock ring even when the locking bolt was loose and I was fighting the adjustment because of that . . Then each rifle of the same cartridge needed me to slightly adjust the die to get that perfect-ish bump . So there I am loosening the lock ring , minor adjustment of the die , size a case check and see if it's right . If not , readjust then size again check if it's right . OK got it , lock the ring and size another case to make sure nothing moved I mean we are talking just .001 to .002 difference , any little movement can effect that as you are adjusting and locking down . No it's not rocket science and does not take up a large amount of time but it's not necessary .

I can just change out the shell holder and be done with zero adjusting of anything . It's just so much easier and quicker with no guess work and you get the added advantage of removing any press flex/deflection that can cause those inconsistencies . I mean why are you trying to fine tune your die to with in .001 when your press deflects +/- .002 from case to case .

 

[mike a]

Whidden click Adjustable die. Because I don't know how many degrees are in 1 hour on a clock face. Also when my chamber is to short I loosen the nut and make it longer. I sound like Guffy. Scary.

 

[cw308]

Metal
Video covered everything , like they say " You can lead a horse to water "

 

[mike a]

It did?
Hey what about Skips shims?
Lots of fellas use them with success. Any thoughts

I bought a set. The thinnest is .003. FWIW. Mike

 

[cw308]

If it works that's fine.

 

[Metal God]

Hey what about Skips shims?
Lots of fellas use them with success. Any thoughts

They look like a fantastic way to adjust your die to multiple repeatable heights . Key point being that you still potentially need to adjust your die for each firearm you load for of the same cartridge . To be honest I'm not sure which would be more time consuming . Just adjusting your die .001 or .002 with a small turn and relock the ring or removing the die completely to add the skip shims each time you want to adjust . Either way switching out the shell holder still sounds quicker and easier to me YMMV

 

[Metal God]

I sound like Guffy. Scary.

No you don't because what you said was clear and understandable with directions and the name of the product you are using . Actually not sure you could be any further away from how he writes .

 

[Metal God]

I’ve not tried but Guffey liked them.

Hmm I thought he just like things that do things for things . I think he also makes things .