Head expansion indicating pressure.....

[alinwa]

BTW this is directed at the op, I have zero interest in arguing with a bunch of innernet exspurts....I DO this.


Safely.


one caveat...... from one who LIVES at this pressure level using rifles purpose-built to handle the clean burn characteristic to high pressure, chamberings up to and including the big 338's/375's.....338L, 30-378, 338-378, 378, 404 Jeffery variants of all sorts.

IF you choose to continue running near max, please spend 300-400 on a GOOD scale and play close attention to temperature control. And don't let anyone convince you that some powders are "temperature insensitive"..... ALL nitroglycerin based propellants are temperature sensitive.

As a licensed 07 mfgr I can legally produce cartridges for sale so I do a lot of testing by both cooking and freezing ammo. IMO if you're running near that "casehead expansion" line two things are vital. #1, loads MUST be individually weighed, to the kernel, and #2 any load worked up at any temperature is only good for a temp rise of 15-20 degrees fahrenheit before it may pressure out (lose primer pocket)

Also, fuh'GEDDABOUT silly innertube advice like "measuring expansion with a blade mic" cuz all that will show you is that brass is wikkid uneven, eccentric and varies from lot to lot.

BTDTGTTS, long ago

Here's the RULE...... when your primer pockets get loose, YOU'RE TOO HOT!!





Be Safe




al

 

[Bart B.]

Here's the RULE...... when your primer pockets get loose, YOU'RE TOO HOT!!

Good advice.

All the few hundred proof loads I've shot had no loose primer pockets. Does that mean 67,500+ cup or 82,000+ psi is ok for regular use?

 

[alinwa]

This is what happens when you ask a question on a forum. Whom do you believe?

You don't believe ANYBODY!

You test it yourself......


It ain't just internet forums. I ran into this problem back in the 80's. I'd call "experts" all over the planet looking for "truth."

I had bolts bushed and built to "contain caseheads"

I bought into "min spec chambers to contain caseheads"

I bought "casehead resizers" and all manner of other tooling. Yup, I'm one of the nine people on the planet with knife edge mic's....

35yrs and hunnerds of thousands of dollars later..... loose primer pockets wins.

 

[Bart B.]

from one who LIVES at this pressure level using rifles purpose-built to handle the clean burn characteristic to high pressure, chamberings up to and including the big 338's/375's.....338L, 30-378, 338-378, 378, 404 Jeffery variants of all sorts.

What are standard max average psi numbers?

 

[243winxb]

shellholder

Lee? Try a RCBS shell holder.

Pressure sighs with photos.https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/albums/high-pressure-signs.148/

 

[alinwa]

Since we've broached the idea of "max pressure," and "pressuring out," a story.


A true story BTW.


I'm a CAREFUL guy. I am well over the half century mark and still have my hearing. I'm that weird guy neighbor that wears shooting muffs mowing the lawn. And have even been known to wear safety glasses when mowing next to buildings.... I basically gear up for any activity except swimming.


So it really sucked several years ago to have to pull over $2000.00 worth of 300WSM ammunition apart because I bought into another innernet or public consciousness fallacy. It's "General Knowledge" that ball powder meters better than stick. "Everybody Knows That!!" In fact, it meters to easily within a tenth of a grain! EASILY......right? Good enough fer a hunting load!


Well it ain't true.

Flat out IS NOT TRUE!

But like a complete dumb-ass I lissened to others instead of completing MY testing.

FACT...Ball powder meters not one single whit better through any of my (17) powder measures than does short stick.

As I learned the hard way after loading a bunch of rounds that failed my extended heat-soak test (the loads were headed to The Dark Continent)

Safety Rules were adhered to.

Several late nights (actually, early mornings) were spent.

The client was none the wiser and gutpiles and memories were made, campfire stories were generated.....


TEST stuff people, don't believe ANYBODY

 

[retired]

lol between you and al...al all day long.

This is what happens when you ask a question on a forum. Whom do you believe?

 

[Bart B.]

TEST stuff people, don't believe ANYBODY

Good idea if we all use the same yardstick that keeps its size measuring stuff instead of one made of rubber stretched to the unlimited imagination of ne'r do wells.

 

[Bart B.]

one caveat...... from one who LIVES at this pressure level using rifles purpose-built to handle the clean burn characteristic to high pressure, chamberings up to and including the big 338's/375's.....338L, 30-378, 338-378, 378, 404 Jeffery variants of all sorts.

Are any spec'd by any standards to max average pressure over 65,000 psi?

How much case head expansion does that convert to?

If the case is reloaded 9 more times that level is the measure then about 10 times more than the original dimension?

 

[243winxb]

loose primer pockets wins.

Some Pressure signs that apply to handguns and rifles. Not always both.

Numbers 3, 11,14 ,15 would apply.

 

[alinwa]

Pressure signs.

Numbers 3, 11,14 ,15 would apply.

#10 BTW is crap, another example of some wannabe attempt at being "comprehensive" as anyone who's actually messed with firing pin configurations KNOWS. Shape and protrusion DO NOT "pierce" primers

 

[rammac]

To the OP, one other thing you might want to do is to pay attention to the details when reloading.

You posted

"If the max pressure for 222 Rem is 53,664psi (according to Quickload)..."

Quickload indicates that this is a CIP standard and not a SAAMI standard. Using CIP pressure standards and SAAMI cartridge dimensions/standards isn't the safest way to build loads that are pushing the high end of the cartridge's capabilities.

 

[Bart B.]

from one who LIVES at this pressure level using rifles purpose-built to handle the clean burn characteristic to high pressure, chamberings up to and including the big 338's/375's.....338L, 30-378, 338-378, 378, 404 Jeffery variants of all sorts.

Do any of these have average peak pressure specs above 65,000 psi?

I cannot find any so please link me to some realistic reference.

 

[Bart B.]

#10 BTW is crap, another example of some wannabe attempt at being "comprehensive" as anyone who's actually messed with firing pin configurations KNOWS. Shape and protrusion DO NOT "pierce" primers

#1 is the worst incorrect example. Even with 10% reduced loads from reasonable max loads will bulge the case about 1/10th inch forward of the extractor groove.

 

[ireload2]

Your tests may be worthless if you do not use the rifle the ammo is to be fired in. That is why trying to load the hottest possible ammo for a customer is dumb. It is also why there are tolerances so you have a margin of safety.

Since we've broached the idea of "max pressure," and "pressuring out," a story.


A true story BTW.


I'm a CAREFUL guy. I am well over the half century mark and still have my hearing. I'm that weird guy neighbor that wears shooting muffs mowing the lawn. And have even been known to wear safety glasses when mowing next to buildings.... I basically gear up for any activity except swimming.


So it really sucked several years ago to have to pull over $2000.00 worth of 300WSM ammunition apart because I bought into another innernet or public consciousness fallacy. It's "General Knowledge" that ball powder meters better than stick. "Everybody Knows That!!" In fact, it meters to easily within a tenth of a grain! EASILY......right? Good enough fer a hunting load!


Well it ain't true.

Flat out IS NOT TRUE!

But like a complete dumb-ass I lissened to others instead of completing MY testing.

FACT...Ball powder meters not one single whit better through any of my (17) powder measures than does short stick.

As I learned the hard way after loading a bunch of rounds that failed my extended heat-soak test (the loads were headed to The Dark Continent)

Safety Rules were adhered to.

Several late nights (actually, early mornings) were spent.

The client was none the wiser and gutpiles and memories were made, campfire stories were generated.....


TEST stuff people, don't believe ANYBODY

 

[ireload2]

Newbies don't have enough knowledge to sort the BSers from the competent.

This is what happens when you ask a question on a forum. Whom do you believe?

 

[alinwa]

Your tests may be worthless if you do not use the rifle the ammo is to be fired in. That is why trying to load the hottest possible ammo for a customer is dumb. It is also why there are tolerances so you have a margin of safety.

I have no idea what you're saying here???

How could anyone on God's Earth load for anything but "the rifle the ammo is to be fired in?" I build custom loads for people. I get paid for it. I am extremely competent at it. I do not EVER load "the hottest ammo possible"...... I broke down ammunition, resized and reloaded it because my loads didn't have a large enough safety margin if they got left on the dash or hood of a Range Rover in Africa. That if they got over 200 degrees they might expand the primer pockets or cause stiff bolt lift on extraction.



FACTORY 300WSM's won't pass my tests.


Where do you get this stuff? Are you saying that you reload bulk ammo for unknown guns? And that somehow you assume I do like you?


Please don't.

 

[Bart B.]

This is what happens when you ask a question on a forum. Whom do you believe?

All those who know what they're talking about using scientific facts and logic for measuring pressure.

For example, people who do pressure tests on ammo using established objectives, conditions and standards.

All of those three criteria are not established for measuring case head expansion. I doubt all of them could agree on such criteria.

I think the case head expansion system reasoning is akin to those subscribing to that of The Flat Earth Society. There are thousands of them. They even have a web site championing their ignorance and illogical reasoning.

 

[Bart B.]

FACTORY 300WSM's won't pass my tests.

Betcha they passed the industry established tests.

 

[Bart B.]

I have zero interest in arguing with a bunch of innernet exspurts....

Neither do subscribers to The Flat Earth Society beliefs.

Would you have any interest in arguing with commercial ammo companies or military ammo plants?

Or challenging SAAMI's documented specs for assessing pressure?