Hart prototype 5 groove?

[GerryM]

sorry about getting back on this Butch I have no idea why they last longer I only know that mine do.
For some reason the throats don't wear out as fast on the ones I had over the years/ Of course I clean them often and very well.

 

[Tim s]

Timmy mad

Ray

Nobody's mad RayRay, the conversation was, I thought, about short ange benchrest barrels.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Good Lord Alex, the thread started relative to short range BR and what the shop is doing there......as in 6MM 14 twist barrels .
Why did you not splain to the class what the hell you ordered. How this is relevant to the initial question is beyond me, it's not even the same button.
You believe whatever blows your skirt up.

When I called to speak with them about the new button design I asked if it was a 5r. The reply was eeehhhh... kind of not really. I agree with that. 10 degrees more slope than their conventional. Definitely not what I am used to seeing with other "5r" barrels. It was explained to me that this is the new 5 groove design, nothing was said about different angles on different twists. Actually the whole discussion took place before I even told him the twist I wanted. And the initial question was asked by Ray, a 1k BR shooter. Dont think he cares about 14 twists. I will believe what the man who designed the button told me, that blows my skirt up.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Is this a new unfired blank?Great cleaning method it is used!!!

Thats the inch I cut off the new blank. You should be able to see one of the reasons you want to cut off that last bit of muzzle. The Lapped finish is rough there, as well as the enlargement/out of round you probably would have measured.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Aside from all that, I like the looks of the barrel. I will slug it at some point and chamber it in a BRA. Either it will go on my LG or @Toms LG if he wants to try it.

 

[g.ross]

How about a PRS gun to try it on .lol

 

[Alex Wheeler]

A prs gun? No way! LOL

 

[butchlambert]

Butch,
I don't want o step on Ray's answer but I tend to suspect it boils down to the precise "R" in 416R.
Back when most everything was sourced from Crucilbe they had their formulation down pretty good but even then you had lot to lot varience.
As PJ once told me " you gotta remember the difference between straight 416 and R is primarily sulpher which is basically dirt and does'nt really want to mix well" .
Most guys do not understand that when a button shop gets a new lot of steel, they have to play with drill and reamer sizes to end up with the hole they want. When they get a great lot of steel which yeilds great barrels.....better pick up a few while they last because when that lot is gone they're back to page one to some degree.
Tough to earn a living making barrels.

Still confused Timmy. All the barrel makers I know use 416R. Sulfur is added for machine ability. Yes, the barrel makers have to adjust to ea lot of steel. Now why do some last longer?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I have been told by a button maker that the button work hardens the surface of the bore and that contributes to life. I dont know how much of that is true or salesmanship. Personally I dont care I want the ones that shoot the best. Cant remember the last time someone bragged about how long their barrel shot average groups for.

 

[butchlambert]

Now the big question, What does the "r" in 5r mean. I know 5 is the amount of lands and grooves, what does the r mean. Not canted lands as several mfgs do canted and they are not "r" barrels.

 

[Tim s]

Still confused Timmy. All the barrel makers I know use 416R. Sulfur is added for machine ability. Yes, the barrel makers have to adjust to ea lot of steel. Now why do some last longer?

Well you better get out more because several still use straight 416 and for a while several sourced stuff from Germany, Italy, etc that was somewhere between 416 & 416R.

 

[butchlambert]

Well you better get out more because several still use straight 416 and for a while several sourced stuff from Germany, Italy, etc that was somewhere between 416 & 416R.

Timmy, The source of your info please? Not what your buddy told you at the range.

 

[JRS]

Now the big question, What does the "r" in 5r mean. I know 5 is the amount of lands and grooves, what does the r mean. Not canted lands as several mfgs do canted and they are not "r" barrels.

Russian.

 

[Tim s]

Timmy, The source of your info please? Not what your buddy told you at the range.

The source of my info is personal experience there BL, both CF and in particular RF barrels, which I personally own, owned, have shot, some of which, I suspect, you never heard of.
Like I said, even 416R, from different lots, and/or different sources, varies widely.
I can tell you more Butch, but I'm gonna have to charge you for lessons.

 

[Tim s]

Now the big question, What does the "r" in 5r mean. I know 5 is the amount of lands and grooves, what does the r mean. Not canted lands as several mfgs do canted and they are not "r" barrels.

Ratchet

 

[JRS]

Ratchet

The original design (5R - Russian) was slightly modified by Boots Obermeyer, then modified once again by Broughton. Boots Obermeyer was the first to use the design in the U.S. Broughton modified it to use the angle on only the driving side of the lands.

 

[dogdude]

Ramped

 

[butchlambert]

The source of my info is personal experience there BL, both CF and in particular RF barrels, which I suspect own, owned, have shot, some of which, I suspect, you never heard of.
Like I said, even 416R, from different lots, amd/or different sources, varies widely.
I can tell you more Butch, but I'm gonna have to charge you for lessons.

Kid, you have a long way to go before giving lessons. I asked a question and you haven't answered it.

 

[Joe Salt]

Yes Boots Obermeyer was the one that started the 5R, and I have one on my HG. its 1.45, 36'' and if I ever get another good day, its going to hammer!
And R does stand for Russian. My god Trump will probably get in trouble over this also. A little funny HaHa

Joe Salt

 

[butchlambert]

Ratchet

Again Timmy, you are wrong. Ratchet is a Shilen designation for their land design.
The "5R" designate the shape of the land or the shape consists of 5 radii. .