Just returned from the range where I ran some loads down range. Decided to see how much groups changed both in POI and group size. Boy was I surprised. Seems groups were above and inch at 100 yards with a hard hold but .2 with free recoil. Same for everything out to 500 yards. All shots were high also when held hard vs free. There's definitely a huge difference in zeroing this rifle when using either shooting method. I've pretty much always shot light hold/ free recoil but still holding the rifle for stabilization when hunting. Using the free recoil is hard in hunting situations unless on a bipod.
Hard hold or free recoil ?
- Thread starter 284winner
- Start date
Shifting "Hold's" is one of the reason's that, some People get, what they think, are "Flyers", in their Groups !
I'm, "guilty as charged", myself ! Some Days, I amaze myself and think that, the Rifle and Load, are Perfect !
Other Days,.. NOT so much ! I like to retest Loads, 3 Times, to be,.. SURE !
I try NOT to, "tighten up" ( tense up my Shoulder or, Hard Hold ) when shooting, the bigger calibers.
Tis' Mind, over matter !
I'm, "guilty as charged", myself ! Some Days, I amaze myself and think that, the Rifle and Load, are Perfect !
Other Days,.. NOT so much ! I like to retest Loads, 3 Times, to be,.. SURE !
I try NOT to, "tighten up" ( tense up my Shoulder or, Hard Hold ) when shooting, the bigger calibers.
Tis' Mind, over matter !
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It seems just the opposite in my case at least today. The hard hold was consistent but groups opened up. The free recoil groups were better but also consistent. Guess your "Shifting hold" could be the definition. I typically shoot off a bipod with a rear squeeze bag. Mostly free recoil with a very light hold. Today was off a Sinclair heavy front rest and rear rabbit ear rest. Not my typical rest as to replicate a hunting set up
FeMan
Gold $$ Contributor
IME, what works best depends on the position, weight and balance of rifle, and caliber. Like you, I have never found that a hard hold produces the best groups. My smaller calibers generally like less input. The bigger stuff I find needs more shoulder. Id say 2 lbs of pressure is the max that works for me. Any more and the rifle muzzle tends to jump instead of come straight back.
Yeah, I too have experimented with different holds and which I use depends on the type of shooting I'm doing. These days, I shoot almost always from a bench, so I prefer shooting free recoil with a light trigger and only contact the rifle with my thumb above the trigger when I fire it.
I find free recoil works the best for the load development so that factors like any variation in how the rifle is held is not so involved in what I see on the paper. Once a good load if found, then I'll work with the mechanics and make any adjustments (like rezeroing) for hunting or other types of shooting as I try to keep my shooting mechanics consistent.
skeeljc
Gold $$ Contributor
First let's get a handle on "free recoil". My definition is rifle on the rest/bag and against the fore end stop. Zero shoulder pressure (a gap). Zero cheek pressure (i do not even look through the scope when I touch it off). A 2-3 ounce trigger fired with your hand resting on a bag and just one finger tripping the trigger.
Obviously there are different definitions of free recoil. For me, being predominantly a hunter, it's defined as gun freely rested either on bipod w/rear rest or front/rear rest. No pressure on shoulder from stock, light cheek contact and only finger on trigger w/light hand contact on rifle below tang(pistol grip portion). I was gonna follow up with the accuracy of every rifle being based on which shooting method is utilized. For bolt guns, seems the free recoil is the most consistent method and I'm sure most if not all competition shooters use it. Not being one, I could be wrong. I as a hunter don't use the complete method of touchless shooting but close. Seems to work best in all my scenarios.
Maybe my title is not completely accurate. Maybe it should have been light or hard hold. Free recoil is kinda an open undefined title.
dc.fireman
Sling & Irons!
For position shooters, "shouldering" can give you some erratic shots. Changing grip tension can as well.
I like to hunt. It might find me in a tree stand, ground blind, open prairie, standing next to a tree, lying on the ground, hood of a truck, shooting off a pack, you name it.
With consistency being key to repeatability, and precision dependent on both, I always have two hands on a rifle and firm pull into the shoulder. Granted it takes a ton of practice and there is always improvement I can make as the rifleman, but it does pay off in the field.
If I were a 6BR guy, yes, I would shoot free recoil.
With consistency being key to repeatability, and precision dependent on both, I always have two hands on a rifle and firm pull into the shoulder. Granted it takes a ton of practice and there is always improvement I can make as the rifleman, but it does pay off in the field.
If I were a 6BR guy, yes, I would shoot free recoil.
Orr89rocz
Silver $$ Contributor
I noticed this on some guns of mine that dont seem to shoot well on caldwell leadsleds. But on a front rest and rear bag, it shoots much better although letting it recoil into you kinda sucks.
suprisingly, my 458 win mag shoots decent when i got on it hard and tight, and you have to else it moves too much and is painful.
My long range shooting/hunting bipod guns i like having a mild forward preload on the bipod to control muzzle and recoil to Get back on target instantly to watch bullet hits. Free recoil or as light of a hold you can get jumps all over and impossible to get back on target most of the time for me
suprisingly, my 458 win mag shoots decent when i got on it hard and tight, and you have to else it moves too much and is painful.
My long range shooting/hunting bipod guns i like having a mild forward preload on the bipod to control muzzle and recoil to Get back on target instantly to watch bullet hits. Free recoil or as light of a hold you can get jumps all over and impossible to get back on target most of the time for me
I shoot free off the bench but had an observation with a
front rest I had just started using. I had the rifle shooting
1/3rd moa's at 100 during a test. Rifle felt a little too loose
so I ran the bag ears in a little closer and tighter on the fore-
end. Shot some crazy horizontals in a no wind condition.
front rest I had just started using. I had the rifle shooting
1/3rd moa's at 100 during a test. Rifle felt a little too loose
so I ran the bag ears in a little closer and tighter on the fore-
end. Shot some crazy horizontals in a no wind condition.
There's definitely a sweet spot on the rest. I was doing some testing for drop data but that's another topic all together. 200,300,400,500 showed some interesting numbers. The calculator said 1.4, 3.3,5.5 and 8.0. While most were close, 200 yards wound up being .75, 300 was 3.0, 400 was 5.0 and 500 was 8.0. My velocity is 3000 fps with 162 Amax (.625). Elevation 700'. Wind was nonexistent. Groups were all .25-1.0 out to 500 yards. Oddly enough my 100 yard group was the largest. Pretty much .25-.30 from 200-500. Wasn't shooting for group but those were my results. The shooting technique definitely showed different POI.
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mikegaiz
Stay frosty, my friend.
I do not want to start an argument, but my feelings are shooting free recoil is not shooting. You are simply setting the gun up on the rest and touching the trigger an the gun dose the rest. You kind of just go along for the ride and see what happens. If you are going to shoota gun ? you need to be holding the gun and controlling what you are aiming at.
Sorry if this offends anyone.
Sorry if this offends anyone.
I kinda agree.
However, the gun can't do ALL the rest . . . like determining an accurate load or reading and compensating for environmental conditions.
But, as technology advances "the gun" system is doing more, like we see with the TranckingPoint system. Probably one day,most shooters won't know how to shoot without the technology. 
In my experiance over 55 years of shooting, practical rifle capability seem to me to be a gift that some shooters are born with.
Not that it doesn't take practice, it does but even among the scores of trained shooters there are always 1 or 2 that makes the (wow) hits. They do it with rests they improvise in the field, in conditions that vary moment to moment, at various ranges with seconds to aquire the target.
After reading this I think I'm gonna go hug my wife and let my rifle buck....
Both have been known to hit me between the eyes!
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