hang fires in my 6.5x47

[2506]

I had some fail to fire problems when I first started using Wolf primers. Problem was that I was not seating them firm enough. You have got to really add more force to seat them. Their cup is harder and tougher to form to the primer pocket. I also noticed that the anvil sits up just a little more than other primers and with my Lee hand primer I can feel the anvil hit bottom and then add more pressure and feel the cup hit bottom and compress the anvil against the priming pellet properly. Since finding this I have not had a single problem with Wolf primers.

 

[21shooter]

Hi, Must agree with 2506 make sure the primer is seated COMPLETELY. John

 

[jo191145]

Gotta say 25-06 described it exactly. Really gotta seat them wolfs hard.
6PPC did'nt like them much. Then I learned what I was doing wrong. Never retried them in the 6 but they function fine in my Sav actions with a FIRM seating.

 

[forsyth793]

I would really hate to properly seat Wolf Small Rifle Primers with a hand seater, it's tough enough with a Bench Mounted seater.

 

[1shot]

Spike and others,
I will freely admit that the Wolf primers do seat harder than others, but that being said, I don't find it tiresome and I know when a primer is seated correctly with my hand seater. Some have suggested that the Wolf's aren’t seated fully. I would buy into that theory except the same primer works just fine in my 223 and 6AR, as well as my buddies 6BR. There is something about the 6.5x47 L and Wolf primers that just seem to be a bad combo for some.
Lloyd

 

[zap]

One shot, great stuff ! thanks.

I would have to think my seating is fine because I tried several other powders and they all fired fine. I will have to try that load of N550 with the wolf primers 1 more time. I have to find out what is the cause.

 

[lloydx2]

I read somewhere that the Wolf primer cup and anvil has more separation between the two. This is to help alleviate slam fires in auto loaders. I also know that 40 gr powder columns with certain powders can be hard to ignite through a small flash hole. Back in the 80s I shot rem ubr brass 308 small primer. With fed 205 I could not get the powder to burn. 90% failure rate with 4064 powder. I went to rem 71/2 and 100% reliability. Usually when a primer gets hit it either goes or it doesn't theres no pause. When you have a hang fire the primer is going off Its the powder that's not igniting immediately. Lloyd

 

[zap]

Went back to the range to test some r 17 and try the combo that was causing the hang fires last week.

I started out shooting some loads with r17 and no hang fires at all. I did switch to cci br4 primers. After that I went to the N550 and wolf primers, and again, hang fires.

I will have to try that powder (n550) and cci br4 primers next, then I can rule out faulty powder causing the hang fires.

The only thing I found out in this outing was that my firing pin is working just fine, and I am pretty sure it was fine before I checked it last week.

 

[markm87]

I had a bunch of hangfires using wolf primers made for AR_15 autos....In a winchester mod 70 chambered in .223 ack. I gave up useing them as I was getting about 50% hangfires or failure to fire. I hear Wold standard primers are great? I have no problems with CCI, federal, or remington in that rifle.

Was that with H335? For whatever reason.. those primers won't light H335 for squat.

 

[wwbrown]

I had some hang-fires with Wolf primers when I was seating them with the Lee Auto primer. I switched to the K&M seater about 5,000 wolf primers ago and have not had a single mis- or hang-fire. I have come to figure that the hangfires were an issue with my seating technique.

wade

 

[me124704]

I had the same problem with my 6.5x47 with Wolf SRM primers, regardless what seating technique I used. I ended up switching primers and haven't had any issues since then.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Have had some issues in my 6.5x47L with hangfires using CCI450 and RL17. Thought at first I was having issues with firing pin, action is a Stiller TAC30. Couldn't find anything there so checked headspace again. Chambered it at about .001 headspace so didn't think that was an issue and confirmed it isn't the issue. Going back to H4350 or RL15 to see if it happens with either of those for giggles. Never had trouble prior just with the RL17??? While I can get 3104fps with it and 123L the accuracy at 100 hits close to 1moa with the sporadic out of group shots 1 or 2 per 5 shot group. At 600 while around moa it won't serve my purpose of a LR yote getter. Flat shooting sucka with 9moa to 600yd.

Thought it was something I did or didn't do but got me a bit confused. Never had any issues with the 6x47L I built and use same powder/primer combo. In fact RL17 has given the best velocity of 3160 fps with less pressure signs and excellent accuracy.

 

[lloydx2]

The only way to know is to pull down the misfired round and look at the primer to see if its gone off. There will usually be a little discoloring of the powder at the base of the case. This also doesn't mean the the powder is no good it just means that it needs more heat to get it going. Cold temps will aggravate this condition. Lloyd

 

[glo]

YES! I have had hang-fire problems. It was in reloads that are are set to near zero headspace in Savage floating type bolt heads. The Savage designed firing pin assembly is not independent of the bolt body like the Mauser design. A tight or near tight fit of a reloaded cartridge in the Savage design can bind the firing pin assembly not allowing full firing pin spring strength.

 

[TheSnake]

YES! I have had hang-fire problems. It was in reloads that are are set to near zero headspace in Savage floating type bolt heads. The Savage designed firing pin assembly is not independent of the bolt body like the Mauser design. A tight or near tight fit of a reloaded cartridge in the Savage design can bind the firing pin assembly not allowing full firing pin spring strength.

I understand the concept of this but in my mind, the tighter the headspace clearance, the more square the floating head would be jammed up aginst case head and therefore, more square and inline with the firing pin. Also wouldn't the bolt lugs always keep the floating head square? I am no smith, but this is what I thought of when I read your post so help me out if I have this wrong please.

 

[glo]

YES! I have had hang-fire problems. It was in reloads that are are set to near zero headspace in Savage floating type bolt heads. The Savage designed firing pin assembly is not independent of the bolt body like the Mauser design. A tight or near tight fit of a reloaded cartridge in the Savage design can bind the firing pin assembly not allowing full firing pin spring strength.

I understand the concept of this but in my mind, the tighter the headspace clearance, the more square the floating head would be jammed up aginst case head and therefore, more square and inline with the firing pin. Also wouldn't the bolt lugs always keep the floating head square? I am no smith, but this is what I thought of when I read your post so help me out if I have this wrong please.

You are absolutely correct.

But the hang-fire issue I have had is in how the bolt shoves back against the sere on the firing pin during the camming action to set the trigger. A gunsmith can correct me but I believe there is about .002” of play between bolt head and bolt lugs on the Savage system. Otherwise the bolt head would not be floating. So when you use a zero headspace it locks up the system.

It is actually the firing pin sere that binds with the trigger sere from under the bolt body. On Mauser system, the cocking and camming action occurs at the back of the action were the bolt hand meets. Another way to look at it, is the firing pin assembly in the Savage system is trapped within the bolt a very an exact amount of play (as I remember .010”) while in the Mauser system it is only confined by the amount you can totally compress the firing pin spring (in my 03A3 its about 1/8”).

 

[lloydx2]

What I cant seem to wrap my head around is how can a primer have delayed ignition (hangfire) A primer relies on impact to ignite. Once that impacts happens it either goes of or it doesn't. It cant get hit, partially ignite and then go off. Its not in the nature of its composition. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think most people assume that its a primer partially igniting but never really look and see. Pull down and decap, inspect primer.

 

[glo]

What I cant seem to wrap my head around is how can a primer have delayed ignition (hangfire) A primer relies on impact to ignite. Once that impacts happens it either goes of or it doesn't. It cant get hit, partially ignite and then go off. Its not in the nature of its composition. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think most people assume that its a primer partially igniting but never really look and see. Pull down and decap, inspect primer.

A hang-fire is not a primer problem. Its a firing pin assembly/trigrer sere problem. You are right, primers either go or don't go.

A misfire is a primer/powder problem. A misfire happens when a primer is bad and doesn't ignite or is wrong for its application and can't properly ignite the powder charge.

 

[lloydx2]

Now this I do know. When a lit primer cant properly ignite a powder charge. It can become a hangfire. I have experienced this myself with rem ubr brass (universal benchrest) as I stated in the previous post. And these were hang fires. Click bang. And there wasn't anything wrong with the primers or striker assm. It was a combination of 40 gr extruded powder small flash hole and to soft a primer (not enough ignition)

 

[johara1]

Tell me how the Wolf SRM. primer seated and flattened in both a 6.5x47 and a Dasher loaded with RL-15 you get the click bang once in a while but change to CCi 450 and that goes away completely. Two different actions and two rounds,the simple conclusion is very easy to see. ......jim