H4831 in 6.5 Grendel?

[mao0720]

Has anyone tried using H4831 in 6.5 Grendel? It might be too slow, but then again it might work too. I have a 19" barrel and I will probably be shooting the 120gr class bullets. Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

[tonedaddy]

way too slow, even with 140gr bullets..sorry

 

[mao0720]

Kinda figured

 

[6.5 gren guy]

CFE 223 or Leverevolution is the slowest I have luck with. I am a xbr 8208 fan in my grendels and I have tried a lot. I just picked up Ar Comp it is suppose to work good with the 123's

 

[DHD]

I have loaded for this caliber for some years now. I have found that Varget and H4895 don't work as well as Leverevolution and AA2520 with the heavier 120/123 grain bullets. I use nothing but XBR8208 with the 107 class bullets. I did try Re15 with the 120/123 grain bullets, but I saw pressure signs before I saw the velocity I expected. I wouldn't even consider a slower powder than those i mentioned. But that's just me.

If I had to pick one powder for it, it would be the XBR. Since I am not limited to one powder, I'll take Leverevolution too. I understand that CFE223 works well and many use AR Comp. I have not tried them and probably won't.

I have seen that AA2520 gave me more pressure signs, lower velocities, and not quite as good accuracy potential as Leverevolution with the heavy's in my rifle.

My Grendel has a Satern 24" 5R, 1-8.75" twist barrel, so my velocities are somewhat higher than you will see with the 19".

YMMV......

 

[mao0720]

Th. Is for theresponses gentlemen! I have a ton of leverevolution on hand, any suggestions as to where to start for a load for the 120 amax?

 

[6.5 gren guy]

I would start at 30.5 and go up .3grn at a time

 

[Buzz]

I'd check your OAL with the 120's. Many have to seat them way back into the case to keep them jamming into the lands. Not the best selection for the grendel, but some people have luck with them. If you end up short, I'd back off the 30.5 recommendation. If you Google bwild97 load data you'll find a spreadsheet with many different load results in the grendel. His brass selection is all over the place, but it'll give you a rough idea of where to start.

 

[6.5 gren guy]

You definitely can't load them the same as 123 a max oal, assuming you don't have a barrel that could have the short throat a 2.200 oal should work. I have had 6 grendels and this oal has worked for the 120 a max in all of them.

 

[DHD]

I have never used the 120 A Max. I have and do use the 123 A Max. I use nothing but Lapua/AA brass and give my bullets a pretty swift kick in the a$$, if you get my drift. I am not aware of any "book max" with Leverevolution, but I run a little above AA2520's data from Alexander Arms. This is my load in my rifle that has been over the chronograph many times and it gives me very good case life and great accuracy with the 120/123 grain bullets.

The best bullet I have ever used in my Grendel is the Berger 120 BT. The 107 SMK is a close second but that is using another entirely different load up. The 123 A Max shoots very good, but it is not my go to bullet.

I do have one of the short throat Satern barrels mentioned, and I personally would not have it any other way.

 

[6.5 gren guy]

Not trying to stir the pot about the Saturn barrels just mentioned it in reference to the goal.

I don't think anybody publishes load data on Leverevolution but in from my experience that data is almost identical to CFE223

 

[DHD]

I didn't think you were.

FWIW, when I got the barrel 4ish years ago, I measured all of the bullets I planned to use (I keep a log on each rifle I have with jam length for each brand/weight bullet I may use. It helps later as the barrel ages too) and found I could jam most and still be able to load from the magazine. As I am typically a "jammer", I was not unhappy. I still am not unhappy with this barrel.

It was only recently that I noticed many were not pleased with this issue. I used to go over on Grendel.com and read, but I had moved to other calibers, so my lapse is not without reason. I still shoot the Grendel, just not too often. It is one of the least temperamental AR's I have seen and it can really shine at the 600 yard line. It started out as an Alexander Arms Overwatch. It is much more now.......

I have never used CFE223. Other than the magic sprinkled over it, is it any better than Leverevolution? You have 6 Grendel's, as stated, so you cannot shoot factory ammo.

 

[6.5 gren guy]

I have had 6 grendel uppers and I now own 2. CFE223 is like Bigfoot in my neck of the woods and it was a posy on 6.5grendel.com that led me to Leverevolution. There has been speculation that these are the same powder but I don't think that at all. I have only played with CFE for 1 pound worth of powder, haven't seen any forsale without hazmat fees for 18 months . It shoots the best speeds and low SD and the biggest difference between that and LVR is it burns a lot cleaner.

 

[6.5 gren guy]

I am curious as to what powder charges you (Dhd) are using. Doesn't jamming give you pressure signs a bit early?

 

[DHD]

As far as pressure signs, I try to find out why I get them and solve that issue. Using Alexander Arms' data with AA2520 and 123 SMK/Scenar taught me what to look for. One last thing I have not tried is an adjustable gas block from SLR. I think many of the original "AR pressure signs" could be attributed to my barrel being somewhat overgasssed.

I suppose jamming does raise pressures, so I back off my powder charge and work back up to the target velocity. That having been said, the 123 A Max shoots better being jammed in my rifle. I have never tried to turn my Grendel into a 6.5×47L, as I know what it is supposed to be and appreciate it for that. Lapua brass is too expensive for me to try and get another 25 fps. I work in 0.2 grain increments with this cartridge as it is so tiny.

I get 2625 fps with 123's and 2750 with 107's and call that good enough. I am running a 24" barrel though.

I saw on Grendel.com that some of the "known" posters were using Leverevolution and getting the target speeds and none of the classic pressure signs. I tried the powder and found that they were correct. I just recently went back to the website and noticed some are using CFE223 and it appears to be working as well as Leverevolution.

 

[6.5 gren guy]

I definitely stated this backwards. CFE burns a lot cleaner than LVR.

I have a 20" & a 24" bull and I am about 2600 in the 24" w/123 scenars. I am like you w/ lighter bullets and xbr , they are like peas and carrots. I just picked up some H335 and some 108 scenars, i hear this combo can make a good 600yd combo

 

[mao0720]

Does 4895 work well with the 107 SMKs?

 

[6.5 gren guy]

I can't honestly say, I have never tried it. I did look in the Vol 1 grendel reloading handbook but no info there. I don't have vol 2 but I here is has a lot more data. I would try xbr 8208 myself, or try the Precision Firearms 107smk loads they shoot great in my rifle but I don't know what powder they use.

 

[mao0720]

Well, I loaded up some initial loads tonight. Started at 29.5gr of LeverRevolution and went up by .5gr to 32gr in PPU brass with BR-2 primers (I know, but its what I have right now). I can seat the 120gr Amax to 1.77 Base to Ogive and have them fitting in the magazine. OAL is 2.305. This puts me 3 thousandths off of max jam. It looks like there is only a few thousandths of bearing surface below the neck shoulder junction.

 

[6.5 gren guy]

That seems pretty long for that bullet. In a case that small you should probably not increase your loads by .5g at a time, that's a lot in a small capacity case. I expect you will blow primers at the very least, probably pierce some primers is a good bet which will burn/melt (rough up) your firing pin.

I am not trying claim to know it all just don't want to hear of injury or equipment damage. I unfortunately found out most of this the hard way.