H4350 Metering

[Kracken McGraw]

Stick powders in a powder thrower are, to me, a bit on the "crunchy" side, so being plus or minus 4-8 granules isn't a surprise. With a RCBS 5-10 scale and powder thrower, I throw under by a couple of tenths and dial it in with a manual trickler as mentioned above. On my 5-10 scale I made a fine sharpie mark at 0.1 gn above and below the " > " on target weight (from "on target", roll the tenths barrel forward and back a tenth to see where it points). Each mark is less than 1/8" away from the " > ". This worked well for me back in the early 80's when I was reloading for 30-06 with IMR 4350. It was good enough for 3/4" groups at 200 with Sierra GameKing bullets. I suspect I could still get that today with H4350.
However, I have an Autotrickler V4 today and have found that one granule of H4350 is ~0.02 gn. I still set the charge below my actual target and use tweezers to add the final couple of granules by hand. Do I really need this level of precision? Probably not, but 40+ years as a chemist has influenced me to be as precise as I can, within budget.

The Little Dandy trickler will do the tweezer job by a push of the button.

 

[64Rambler]

The Little Dandy trickler will do the tweezer job by a push of the button.

I just have to figure out a way to get it positioned on the scale enclosure "deck". I drilled a hole in the aluminum body for the tube of my Franklin Arsenal manual trickler so it sits flat on the main cover, but dispenses into the machined funnel area of the AutoTrickler. I can post a pic later, if this description is confusing, as I'm not the best at descriptions.

 

[Big Mc]

New forum member here. New to reloading. I recently purchased a Lee Challenger kit. I'm loading Hodgdon H4350 in .243 ....

I loaded up 4 groups of 5 rounds. Each group is different by .2 grains. I went back to confirm my math. Measure twice cut once sort of thing. When I put a round of powder back on the scale they differed slightly. I'll say by 4 to 8 pellets of powder. Is H4350 somewhat difficult to meter.??

Here's what I think is going on.... If you're familiar with the Lee Perfect Powder Measure scale you need to "register" 3 white lines to set the desired amount of grains. Say I measure 40 grains in 5 loads. I then go on to measure the next 5 loads at 39.8 grains and so on... I complete my rounds then go back and weigh each group to confirm my math. Its never spot on at say 40 grains. I think its because the setting will never be exact to the original setting. The 3 lines are never perfectly lined up. Very close but never perfect.

I hope I'm not too wordy here. The fundamental question is does H4350 meter well.??

Never had a problem with my CM 1500 with a brass insert. Tommy Mc

 

[Gooba]

Thanks everyone for the great replies. I posted this thread being new at this bullet building process. (my screen name changed from Sluggo to Gooba. For whatever reason I couldn't log in under Sluggo)
I've learned a lot about metering in this thread. I've figured out that trickling powder is the way to go with the H4350 that I'm using.
I'm shooting a .243 (Stevens 334 Walnut made by Savage) I ended up loading the entire range of grains, min to max, in .5 increments. 39.0 up to 42.0 .
I began shooting the 39 and I wasn't even on paper. At 39.5 I was on paper but shooting a large 8+ inch group. At 40 grains I had a nice vertical group at about 3 inches. At 40.5 grains I had 5 shots well inside an inch. I was so happy. I moved up to 41 grains and the 5 shot group was well outside an inch so I stopped right there. Question.....
To get that group of 5 at .75 inches tighter where should I go.?? Zero in on the powder charge or mess with the seating depth.?? For now I have repeated the load that gave me the best result which I will shoot today or tomorrow. I loaded 12 rounds of the 40.5 grain load. I'll report back on how that goes.
I've always been pleased with any group that's under an inch with factory loads. Now that I'm reloading I'd like to get down to half inch groups at 100 yards. I shoot at a nice range. There are guys there that will help me but I'm often there when no one is around. Beyond that I've always enjoyed online forums for other topics. This looks like a good one. Again, thanks for the replies here.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Thanks everyone for the great replies. I posted this thread being new at this bullet building process. (my screen name changed from Sluggo to Gooba. For whatever reason I couldn't log in under Sluggo)
I've learned a lot about metering in this thread. I've figured out that trickling powder is the way to go with the H4350 that I'm using.
I'm shooting a .243 (Stevens 334 Walnut made by Savage) I ended up loading the entire range of grains, min to max, in .5 increments. 39.0 up to 42.0 .
I began shooting the 39 and I wasn't even on paper. At 39.5 I was on paper but shooting a large 8+ inch group. At 40 grains I had a nice vertical group at about 3 inches. At 40.5 grains I had 5 shots well inside an inch. I was so happy. I moved up to 41 grains and the 5 shot group was well outside an inch so I stopped right there. Question.....
To get that group of 5 at .75 inches tighter where should I go.?? Zero in on the powder charge or mess with the seating depth.?? For now I have repeated the load that gave me the best result which I will shoot today or tomorrow. I loaded 12 rounds of the 40.5 grain load. I'll report back on how that goes.
I've always been pleased with any group that's under an inch with factory loads. Now that I'm reloading I'd like to get down to half inch groups at 100 yards. I shoot at a nice range. There are guys there that will help me but I'm often there when no one is around. Beyond that I've always enjoyed online forums for other topics. This looks like a good one. Again, thanks for the replies here.

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/search/1489152/?q=Seating+depth+vs+powder+charges&o=relevance
Old threads like these will answer your questions.

 

[Syncrowave]

one granule of H4350 is ~0.02 gn...

3 kernels is a grain with IMR 4350.

I don't remember whether I ever used the IMR version, but that's one heck of a spread!

 

[ELR LVR]

Thanks everyone for the great replies. I posted this thread being new at this bullet building process. (my screen name changed from Sluggo to Gooba. For whatever reason I couldn't log in under Sluggo)
I've learned a lot about metering in this thread. I've figured out that trickling powder is the way to go with the H4350 that I'm using.
I'm shooting a .243 (Stevens 334 Walnut made by Savage) I ended up loading the entire range of grains, min to max, in .5 increments. 39.0 up to 42.0 .
I began shooting the 39 and I wasn't even on paper. At 39.5 I was on paper but shooting a large 8+ inch group. At 40 grains I had a nice vertical group at about 3 inches. At 40.5 grains I had 5 shots well inside an inch. I was so happy. I moved up to 41 grains and the 5 shot group was well outside an inch so I stopped right there. Question.....
To get that group of 5 at .75 inches tighter where should I go.?? Zero in on the powder charge or mess with the seating depth.?? For now I have repeated the load that gave me the best result which I will shoot today or tomorrow. I loaded 12 rounds of the 40.5 grain load. I'll report back on how that goes.
I've always been pleased with any group that's under an inch with factory loads. Now that I'm reloading I'd like to get down to half inch groups at 100 yards. I shoot at a nice range. There are guys there that will help me but I'm often there when no one is around. Beyond that I've always enjoyed online forums for other topics. This looks like a good one. Again, thanks for the replies here.

Yes I would play with seating depth next, using your 40.5 grn load

 

[ELR LVR]

I don't remember whether I ever used the IMR version, but that's one heck of a spread!

I think he meant 3 kernels is 1/10th Grain of IMR 4350

 

[Steve Donlon]

I think he meant 3 kernels is 1/10th Grain of IMR 4350

Yes, Thanks.

 

[Steve Donlon]

I don't remember whether I ever used the IMR version, but that's one heck of a spread!

I changed it, thanks, I meant .1 of grain, Your right, that would have been a big spread.

 

[RabbitSlayer]

Even my chargemaster is more prone to overthrowing H4350 than other powders. Annoying, but 8 kernels probably isn't why you missed. In a 284 thats about 8 fps as I recall.

 

[BHP9]

With H4350, N150, N540, N555 my Chargemaster, circa 2009 and reprogrammed, will overthrow the odd charge, maybe 1 in 30/40. I just use a Lee powder scoop to remove the offending kernals.

It throws the weight, beeps and reshows the weight, and this is where I make my adjustment. It takes a little longer, but as my Dad would say "there's 24hrs in tomorrow not started on!", meaning it takes time safely.