H4350 Metering

[Sluggo]

New forum member here. New to reloading. I recently purchased a Lee Challenger kit. I'm loading Hodgdon H4350 in .243 ....

I loaded up 4 groups of 5 rounds. Each group is different by .2 grains. I went back to confirm my math. Measure twice cut once sort of thing. When I put a round of powder back on the scale they differed slightly. I'll say by 4 to 8 pellets of powder. Is H4350 somewhat difficult to meter.??

Here's what I think is going on.... If you're familiar with the Lee Perfect Powder Measure scale you need to "register" 3 white lines to set the desired amount of grains. Say I measure 40 grains in 5 loads. I then go on to measure the next 5 loads at 39.8 grains and so on... I complete my rounds then go back and weigh each group to confirm my math. Its never spot on at say 40 grains. I think its because the setting will never be exact to the original setting. The 3 lines are never perfectly lined up. Very close but never perfect.

I hope I'm not too wordy here. The fundamental question is does H4350 meter well.??

 

[CF Junkie]

Like any other large pellet powder, H4350 is harder to meter consistently than smaller pellet powders like VV or round pellet powders that are normally used for smaller calibers.
I have also found that H4350 sometimes clumps up so there might a few more pellets in the load than you expected as you meter the powder.
Even with an electronic metering scale like my ChargeMaster 1500, I find that the large pellet powders sometimes meter out a slightly heavier load than desired. I use my "magic pinch" to get the load back to the desired load weight when that happens.
That said, H4340 is one of the most accurate powders that I use for my 6.5mm CMs.

 

[BHP9]

It is in your type of powder measure. I have a modified Lyman 55 and it have trouble with most stick powders.

I've been using an RCBS Chargemaster for 19 years and weigh every charge on it and it dispenses the correct charge weight entered.

 

[Syncrowave]

Not sure I've ever actually counted the number of particles of H4350 but I suspect there's a bit of variance.

I just set my thrower to throw slightly-light charges into the pan of my scale, then I use a trickler to add enough to bring the balance to the line. (I use an RCBS 10 • 10 balance, and it's plenty accurate/precise for me, even for cartridges as light as 223.)

HTH and welcome to the forum.

 

[Adam in WI]

That scale is going to frustrate you if you intent to weigh all your charges. It's almost impossible to use without eventually sliding the plastic poise off of what you initially set it for. @Syncrowave has a good suggestion. You could sub in a standalone digital scale if you wanted, or there is a member here selling an old RCBS 10-10 in the classifieds. Honestly, this is why I bought a Chargemaster. It isn't perfect, but for this type of reloading it's handy to be able to dispense three charges of three or four, or five weights quickly without fiddling with beam scale settings or powder measure cc to grain values and whatnot.

Good luck, and welcome. You're standing in the entrance of a deep rabbit hole.

 

[Gary in MD]

H4350 is an excellent powder, good choice.
Get a charge master.
Unless you are an expert, then varying your charge weights by two tenths of a grain is probably splitting hairs especially if you are fairly new to this and are not shooting a bench rest quality rifle. Try 5 tenths.
Find a medium to max load that seems to shoot better and then adjust seating depth.

 

[K22]

I just set my thrower to throw slightly-light charges into the pan of my scale, then I use a trickler to add enough to bring the balance to the line. (I use an RCBS 10 • 10 balance, and it's plenty accurate/precise for me, even for cartridges as light as 223.)

HTH and welcome to the forum.

This is what I've been doing for the last 50+ years with extruded powders. Yes, it takes more time to weigh each charge and trickle in the exact amount, but I know that every charge is identical.

Unless you are "blaster" meaning expending large volumes of rounds, this is the simplest fix without having to buy additional / expensive equipment. The 243 does not lend itself to "blaster" style shooting so this is the fix I would opt for.

 

[243winxb]

RCBS Powder Trickler 2​

 

[jds holler]

In a thread that concerns metering properties -- I've gotta say that in my area, Winchester powders are very available lately. Sooo, I tried the Staball 6.5, which advertised temperature stability and easy metering and I'm loving it. It's in the same wheelhouse as H4350, and it meters like a dream. - straight up +/- .1 gr. through my thrower.

So far I've been loading it in 6.5 Creed, and 7-08, and it's been great. jd

 

[Doug Casner]

I always thought that h4350 metered good. Good enough for me. Im not into counting grains but I dont shoot long range either. A tenth is good enough for me, sometimes two. I n my Harrells or chargemaster meters fine. Doug

 

[Kracken McGraw]

In a thread that concerns metering properties -- I've gotta say that in my area, Winchester powders are very available lately. Sooo, I tried the Staball 6.5, which advertised temperature stability and easy metering and I'm loving it. It's in the same wheelhouse as H4350, and it meters like a dream. - straight up +/- .1 gr. through my thrower.

So far I've been loading it in 6.5 Creed, and 7-08, and it's been great. jd

It always looks like top velocities in the loading chart’s too.

 

[DHD]

I have used a lot of H4350 in the last 20 years and it can be more problematic to get exact weights than, say Varget or H4895 (or especially VV). It is a larger extruded powder.

I would not expect your LEE powder measure to be as accurate as some of the better powder measures. Even then the majority of experienced loaders throw a lower weight and then trickle up to their mark. Your measure is not a scale, it just "dumps" an amount of powder. This dump can vary depending on your technique or other reasons.

I am not sure what you are trying to do. I seems as if you are trying to load a ladder with a .2 grain variance (eg. 40, 40.2, 40.4, 40.6 grains).

 

[jds holler]

It always looks like top velocities in the loading chart’s too.

So far with the two rifles I'm using it with, I've stopped at a full grain under listed max, and seen no signs of high pressure. Velocity is right on track as listed, and there's a scootch more room in the case. I'm not gonna worry about going hotter without doing a little more seating depth testing. jd

 

[Fire Dog]

RCBS Powder Trickler 2​

View attachment 1700204

OR…

https://dandyproductsllc.com/products/dandy-2-speed-electric-powder-trickler

 

[DShortt]

I have found stick powders to be more fickle with powder throwers. I've also noticed that not all 'sticks' weigh the same.
What I've yet to decide is why they weigh differently. Or if that really matters. I suspect I never will.

 

[ronsatspokane]

You can spend well over the 1000 dollar mark and still find yourself pulling kernels of powder to get a precise charge weight. This is true with all the larger form factor powders like stick powders. Ask me how I know...
That said, I sold a Charge Master because I thought I needed something better. Checking the charges that came off that on a second scale proved that it was very reliable. If you go that route, check out the "McDonalds Straw" solution to minimize over charges.

 

[ELR LVR]

Yes, 4350 is hard to get consistent charge weights from drop to drop just due to the long kernels
they get in the way of the window closing on the powder measure so to speak
-------------
I do the opposite of what everyone else does in the way of trickling
I found it faster if I throw a slightly heavier charge of maybe .2 to .3 grains over
then simply dip my little powder spoon in and scoop some powder out, then with the spoon over the powder pan, trickle it by hand to arrive at a perfect measure each time
think "flicking your cigarette ash with tapping the spoon to allow powder to trickle back in
it may be the same as trickling with a device but, I also have less clutter on the bench, dont have to deal with filling a trickler, then having to clean it back out when done or switching powders etc etc
no biggee one method from the other but , I'm efficient in different ways
as in "the less I have to deal with" the more enjoyable my reloading sessions are.
I just trickle by hand (my tricklers are rusting away on the shelf haha)

 

[DShortt]

I

Yes, 4350 is hard to get consistent charge weights from drop to drop just due to the long kernels
they get in the way of the window closing on the powder measure so to speak
-------------
I do the opposite of what everyone else does in the way of trickling
I found it faster if I throw a slightly heavier charge of maybe .2 to .3 grains over
then simply dip my little powder spoon in and scoop some powder out, then with the spoon over the powder pan, trickle it by hand to arrive at a perfect measure each time
think "flicking your cigarette ash with tapping the spoon to allow powder to trickle back in
it may be the same as trickling with a device but, I also have less clutter on the bench, dont have to deal with filling a trickler, then having to clean it back out when done or switching powders etc etc
no biggee one method from the other but , I'm efficient in different ways
as in "the less I have to deal with" the more enjoyable my reloading sessions are.
I just trickle by hand (my tricklers are rusting away on the shelf haha)

I kinda do the same, but I go for a tenth under and add as necessary. Sometimes it's 3 grains, sometimes 6. That's when I noticed sticks don't all weigh the same.
Occasion, it'll drop perfectly, sometimes a tenth over. If it's over, I dump it back in the hopper and try again.
Lots of methods for the same result.

 

[64Rambler]

Stick powders in a powder thrower are, to me, a bit on the "crunchy" side, so being plus or minus 4-8 granules isn't a surprise. With a RCBS 5-10 scale and powder thrower, I throw under by a couple of tenths and dial it in with a manual trickler as mentioned above. On my 5-10 scale I made a fine sharpie mark at 0.1 gn above and below the " > " on target weight (from "on target", roll the tenths barrel forward and back a tenth to see where it points). Each mark is less than 1/8" away from the " > ". This worked well for me back in the early 80's when I was reloading for 30-06 with IMR 4350. It was good enough for 3/4" groups at 200 with Sierra GameKing bullets. I suspect I could still get that today with H4350.
However, I have an Autotrickler V4 today and have found that one granule of H4350 is ~0.02 gn. I still set the charge below my actual target and use tweezers to add the final couple of granules by hand. Do I really need this level of precision? Probably not, but 40+ years as a chemist has influenced me to be as precise as I can, within budget.

 

[Steve Donlon]

Yes, 4350 is hard to get consistent charge weights from drop to drop just due to the long kernels
they get in the way of the window closing on the powder measure so to speak
-------------
I do the opposite of what everyone else does in the way of trickling
I found it faster if I throw a slightly heavier charge of maybe .2 to .3 grains over
then simply dip my little powder spoon in and scoop some powder out, then with the spoon over the powder pan, trickle it by hand to arrive at a perfect measure each time
think "flicking your cigarette ash with tapping the spoon to allow powder to trickle back in
it may be the same as trickling with a device but, I also have less clutter on the bench, dont have to deal with filling a trickler, then having to clean it back out when done or switching powders etc etc
no biggee one method from the other but , I'm efficient in different ways
as in "the less I have to deal with" the more enjoyable my reloading sessions are.
I just trickle by hand (my tricklers are rusting away on the shelf haha)

I do the same thing. I made a little spoon out of a piece of fat copper wire, I hammered the end into a spoon. 3 kernels .1 of a grain with IMR 4350. Sometimes I only have to take out 1 kernel to make it right with my Chargemaster 1500 and an adapter on the tube that delivers the powder to the pan so it comes out a little slower. Most of the time I don't need to take any kernels out though.