Newbie here, needing advise. I have just recently acquired an older 30 BR. I am needing to do some fire forming. I have a small amount of H4198. I have quite a bit of H4350. I am obviously not wanting to use up my 4198 and was wondering if it was possible to use the 4350 for fire forming. Anyone have any advice? Thanks for any help in advance.
H 4350 for 30 BR?
- Thread starter Mcallum3
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Jager
Gold $$ Contributor
Even considering that it's purely a fire form load and accuracy doesn't matter... H4350 would be a very poor choice.
100% case fill of H4350 in Lapua brass would be about 33.5/H4350; with a 112/115gr bullet it would give you something around 2085 fps and 22K psi chamber pressure. Not nearly enough pressure, IMO.
100% case fill of H4350 in Lapua brass would be about 33.5/H4350; with a 112/115gr bullet it would give you something around 2085 fps and 22K psi chamber pressure. Not nearly enough pressure, IMO.
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TonyinKY
Silver $$ Contributor
LT-30, H322 or any powder in the cartridge guide that you can get a pound locally without the shipping and hazmat fees. LT-30 and N130 may be suitable as backup for your H4198. https://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/30br/
2200....
Hmmmmm.
I've been thinking about trying some of that with the 125 TNT
Hmmmmm.
I've been thinking about trying some of that with the 125 TNT
wildcatter
Silver $$ Contributor
At those pressures 4350 would have a huge velocity spread. It needs pressure to burn with any consistency.
You'd need faster powders to get any kind of consistent burn to get those velocities. I've never seen any slower powder shoot well at those pressures.
That's why I like the idea of 2200 for the 30-BR.
As soon as I get some time to mess around, I'm gonna try a few different ball powders in mine.
4350 will work in a 6-BR with 105s, but it's tough to get enough in the brass. I wouldn't bother trying with the 30-BR.
I fireform my 30 br brass with benchmark and it does very well
wildcatter
Silver $$ Contributor
The 6BR shines with 4350 and heavy bullets, as light as 95 grain at 3050 fps.. But those are towards the heavy end, and 105s will reach max pressure as well. The problem with the 30 BR the lightest bullets in that caliber is what we are working with. Bigger hole to release any chance of getting pressure.
But I have never seen any ball powder work without a lot of pressure, it is not suited to reduced loads.
No low pressure load with any powder works for fire forming. I just fire formed some 30 BR cases for a friend. I used a 257 expander plug in my 257/284 die then a 6.5 lapua expander, without being deep enough, but then took the 6BR Lapua cases to my 7 BR die and full length sized it all the way after taking taking the neck further to 7mm.
Now I used Remington 7.5 primers with 6.5 grains of Bullseye, and topped the case off with corn cob media for a filler, sealed the mouth with Bees wax. Perfect form on every case, ready to resize in the 30 BR full length die, then run thru the K&M nk mandrel, and turn to .3275" for the .330 nk in his chamber. This allowed enough nk length to trim to 1.520", for his chamber.
Fast little powder to burn, and enough snap for perfect formed cases, and no wasted bullets.
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I agree with respect to ball powder and pressure.
Very seldom will a ball powder give its best without being at or very near to maximum.
I remember way, way back in the day I was loading some 22-250 with H-380. Being cautious, because I was new to loading, my ammo had mediocre accuracy.
Was taking with a co-worker about it and once I told him my load, he said it would start to come around once I got up near maximum. He explained why also.
Went home that evening and made a few more up with ever increasing charges. He was right on the money.
I was also shooting the 30 Herrett at the time and I found the 4227 loads would just shoot. It didn't matter much on the powder charge.
If I used W-680 or AA-1680, they had to be max loads or they weren't consistent.
Since then, I've paid attention to this and it seems to be pretty consistent across most cartridges.
Very seldom will a ball powder give its best without being at or very near to maximum.
I remember way, way back in the day I was loading some 22-250 with H-380. Being cautious, because I was new to loading, my ammo had mediocre accuracy.
Was taking with a co-worker about it and once I told him my load, he said it would start to come around once I got up near maximum. He explained why also.
Went home that evening and made a few more up with ever increasing charges. He was right on the money.
I was also shooting the 30 Herrett at the time and I found the 4227 loads would just shoot. It didn't matter much on the powder charge.
If I used W-680 or AA-1680, they had to be max loads or they weren't consistent.
Since then, I've paid attention to this and it seems to be pretty consistent across most cartridges.
AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
You get one chance at f-forming...the first hit. Subsequent firings can sharpen the shoulders, etc but the first whack better be with plenty of pressure and with a powder that has a decent 'rise time'. A hard jam into the rifling, a fast-ish power, a bit of light lube on the case and a good tacky lube on the lugs is my recipe.
Pressure is your friend when f-forming.
Pressure is your friend when f-forming.
Just wanted to say thanks for everyone's input. Like I mentioned earlier, I am a newbie and have lots to learn. I did go to the local gun store yesterday, that generally keeps a decent amount of powder on the shelf. I told him what I was trying to do, he pulled out a powder burn chart and showed me that IMR4198 was right beside H4198. He has plenty of that available, so, I bought 1lb of it. Hopefully this will do.
He did ask me why everyone is stuck on "H" when there is plenty of "I" available. Of course I have no clue and told him so (being new to reloading/BR shooting). I have been shooting 33.8 gr. Of H4198 with a 112 gr. BIB and getting pretty consistent fps at 3050.
1st question, will the IMR4198 work?
2nd if so, should I load the same 33.8 load?
I do have some throw away 112's so I won't have to use my BIB's
On a side note, a friend gave me about a pound and a half of Benchmark yesterday, so, I have that as an option.
Thanks again everyone.
He did ask me why everyone is stuck on "H" when there is plenty of "I" available. Of course I have no clue and told him so (being new to reloading/BR shooting). I have been shooting 33.8 gr. Of H4198 with a 112 gr. BIB and getting pretty consistent fps at 3050.
1st question, will the IMR4198 work?
2nd if so, should I load the same 33.8 load?
I do have some throw away 112's so I won't have to use my BIB's
On a side note, a friend gave me about a pound and a half of Benchmark yesterday, so, I have that as an option.
Thanks again everyone.
It's a bulkier and longer kernel powder. It meters poorly and you can't quite get enough in the case. But, at lower speeds, it has shot well in the past.
Devils advocate.... do you HAVE to use 112/115 grain bullets? Can you use heavier bullets for FF? 150, 168, etc....
Pretty limited with typical twist rates used for 30 BR..17 and 18 are commonly used.
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