So if your doing load development @100 and your 1st 2 shots aren't touching, do you shoot the other 3 hoping it gets better or move to next seating or charge weight?
Curious is all
Grouping @ 100 yrds vs 200 yrds
- Thread starter slydo
- Start date
Curious is all
Gabe22BR
Gold $$ Contributor
If don’t touch- save the 3 for barrel warmer & move on-
DShortt
Gold $$ Contributor
There is a situation that I heard best described as Spontaneous Serendipity. Meaning, sometimes you get lucky, but it's not consistent.
An accurate 100 yard load that won't remain consistent past 100 yards just means at 100 yards it shot well. Period. As for the specifics, it is above my level of understanding. If I considered it particularly helpful to understand exactly why, I would work on it, but I really don't believe it to be worth the effort. Particularly because the eventual root cause may well prove to be inconsistent.
I'd concentrate on developing loads with a particular, consistent rate of dispersion. Assuming this doesn't tie into something like the 300yd rimfire thread posted elsewhere.
That's a whole 'nuther can 'o worms I can only speculate about. But I suspect it's pretty much just fretting about consistency where consistency is bound by design constraints.
An accurate 100 yard load that won't remain consistent past 100 yards just means at 100 yards it shot well. Period. As for the specifics, it is above my level of understanding. If I considered it particularly helpful to understand exactly why, I would work on it, but I really don't believe it to be worth the effort. Particularly because the eventual root cause may well prove to be inconsistent.
I'd concentrate on developing loads with a particular, consistent rate of dispersion. Assuming this doesn't tie into something like the 300yd rimfire thread posted elsewhere.
That's a whole 'nuther can 'o worms I can only speculate about. But I suspect it's pretty much just fretting about consistency where consistency is bound by design constraints.
Oh you know my dumb ass is gonna send'm!!
Seriously just kidding, that's why I start with 2 shots @200, I'll move to 3 shots for powder tuning, but I honestly believe I could get it done with 2 as well.
Powder has gotten outrageous, primers ain't no better and $.60 a bullet ain't cheap either.
Yeah i know barrel manufacturers gotta eat, but so do I....
i shoot all 5, then , decide. I Usually take, 6 or 7 of each Load, w/ First One for, Fouling ( Cold Bore )
I live 15 minutes from, the wide open, Rolling Desert and weather ( Wind ) permitting, I shoot Twice, a Month.
I have made, a very Stable, 50 Pound, A frame, moveable Bench for, testing.
First, I Find Max Powder charge then, Back Off 1/2 a grain and adjust Bullet depth ( Usually,. "Works" ).
Next "Good Day",.. I shoot, 200 Yards.
Accurizing Rifles, Obtaining Good Group's, and Reloading.. IS,.. My Hobby.
Then we, Plink Steel Plates, from various, Field Positions !
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Try the methodology I posted above.
It saves time money and components/barrels.
I wouldn't post/say it if it didn't work.
Keep in mind i only shoot at club level, but ya better bring your A game!
Edit to say...
I only shoot club matches cuz the vortex of my job sucked me in deeper than i really needed to be.
Jeff Porter
Gold $$ Contributor
I had a friend that worked up a load that shot tiny groups at 100 yards. We went to a match that has 200 and 300 yard stages. 200 went pretty well but not as good as he had expected based on his 100 yard groups. At 300 he was using the whole target… I watched his bullet trace through a spotting scope and the trace lobbed out smoothly about 225 yards then started to corkscrew. His load was not staying stable as it slowed down and went Trans sonic.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Transonic at 300 yards?
Wayne
Jeff Porter
Gold $$ Contributor
It was a mouse fart load.maybe not transonic but slow enough to lose stability
Basically where he should've started with seating depth test?
I'm surprised there is no long range indoor facility to test all this. As originally a pistol shooter, no-one would ever think the capabilities of the pistol and ammunition were shown by anything other than using a machine rest indoors. User error is very magnified with pistols. I get the feeling many riflemen forget that with groups being smaller and the use of bipods etc.
I wouldn't put much confidence in any testing done outdoors and hand held, too many variables. I've yet to see a load shot at 100m in a tunnel perform badly at distance, assuming it was 1.5+ on the Berger stability tool and the wind was behaving. I've seen the same load shoot a lot bigger when I was having a bad day or conditions were very unpredictable.
In summary, validate the load is good, remove the wind and shooter as variables.
I wouldn't put much confidence in any testing done outdoors and hand held, too many variables. I've yet to see a load shot at 100m in a tunnel perform badly at distance, assuming it was 1.5+ on the Berger stability tool and the wind was behaving. I've seen the same load shoot a lot bigger when I was having a bad day or conditions were very unpredictable.
In summary, validate the load is good, remove the wind and shooter as variables.
Being consistent with a bow has had its benefits transferring over to firearms.
Muscle memory is key for shot to shot consistency no matter the discipline.
Edit, consistency takes practice with a tuned platform.
TTE
Gold $$ Contributor
1/2" in what configuration ?
If it's a 1/2" vertical group at 100 .... it won't be too good at longer distance
MikeRu
Gold $$ Contributor
IMO assuming a 6mm-30 cal bullet at 2800+ fps it’ll shoot approximately to scale (similar MOA but not identical) at both distances 100 or 200 yds, if it shoots differently then there is a reason— maybe your MV changed due to fouling, something got loose, scope problems or the wind changed quite a bit. Try going back and forth with 3 shot groups alternating at each distance? Shoot 4 fowlers before you shoot a group. You won’t get the same MOA at 100 and 500. Mirage wind etc. so 0.125 MOA group at 200 might be 0.20 or more at 600 (1.2”).
This answer is going to get me branded as a heretic but along with all of the before mentioned effects that increasingly come into play at longer ranges, there’s also an issue of sample size.
If it’s comparing a 3 shot group at 100 and 3 shot group at 200, it’s unlikely that either one of those groups is an accurate representation of the true cone of fire of the rifle. Therefore it doesn’t seem abnormal, to me anyway, that there isn’t a strong correlation between the two group sizes. I wouldn’t expect there to be because of the small sample size. The more shots fired at each distance, the better the representation of the rifles dispersion, the stronger the correlation will be between the two groups.
I’m not saying anybody needs to do this so no need for anybody to get upset with me for saying this. But, if you want try it sometime in the name of science, shoot at different distances with the same load but continue to increase the number of shots. Do it as either a single group or as a composite group so you can see all the shots relative to each other.
Assuming you’re a decent shooter, can’t be the guy struggling to keep it on a pie plate at 25 yards
, but as the number of shots in each group increases from 3, 5, 10, 15, 20 you’ll start to see a more normal pattern develop. Instead of say 1/2” to 3.5” maybe it’ll be 2” to 5” or 1/2” to 1.5”, it just depends on the precision of the system. As the sample size increases the extreme variations settle down.let some one else shoot the gun and see what they do at 100/200
Bullets removed loaded balanced @0.05 gr bullet replaced @0.030" from the rifling only the crimp come in play some bullets are way more easier to remove and replace
Unfortunately two won’t tell me much. I have to send #3 down range . Now if that’s touching number #1or2 I’m shooting #’s4&5
If not I’ll probably move to another 5
I go to the range fully expecting to fire groups of 5. That works for me.
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Yeah, sorry man, I still got nothing. But there’s a lot I don’t know. Good luck
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