Good Sources for .22 LR benchrest rifles?

[Ccrider]

I have bought 4 different used 22lr from this site. All of them have shot impressively small. Each seller sent me sample targets and the rifles shot as good or better.

The last one I bought, which is the best yet, agged under 1/2 inch center to center for 5 consecutive 10 shot groups. The smallest 5 shot group at 100 yards was .23 center to center. This was with no tuning shooting ammo I had on hand. I may send this rifle off to the test center but doubt it will shoot much better.

Maybe I have been lucky. But that’s my experience.

 

[HalfCZ]

Here is my thought. Buy whatever gun that seems good. New or used. Then start watching the people who win and follow their lead.

 

[HalfCZ]

Another thought. Simplify your life and enter only Factory Class events. Once you can beat all the competition with a stock rifle start shopping for that custom.

 

[searcher]

So, I should qualify my answer.
I have yet to buy a factory rifle or used rifle that I did not find lacking. Often in multiple areas.
Now. One could say 'Well, stupid. You should have bought a custom rifle to begin with.'
And there is truth in that.
In my particular case, I am out to learn, and so I have learned A LOT.
Perhaps, more than anything, I've learned to lower my expectations if I don't want to be disappointed.
If you're primarily interested in shooting alone, I say saving up and buying a costly custom will ultimately be cheaper in both time and $$$.
Just don't expect to shoot in the top percentage just because you spent a lot of money. You have to know how to shoot, too.
That takes time, $$$, experience and practice.
Add in diagnosing and correcting firearms issues and you better have a lot of patience as well. You'll need it.
Perhaps that round count figure is synonymous with experience?

Yes - it is quite an eye opener to see not only what can be spent on a .22, but all the test ammo, gadgetry and such does add to the tab. It took me quite a while to get over the cost of my custom .22 match rifle and scope and while my rifle shoots very good, I was having second thoughts on barrel selection before I even received the rifle. Some years back, I went on a mission to get the kind of accuracy I read of guys on this forum getting out of their Ruger 10/22's. Sometimes stupidity and perseverance make for crazy high prices to get something to shoot as you expect. I now own the world's most expensive Ruger 1022 that is probably worth the tax of what I paid to (finally) get those golden groups. Not doing that again. Ha!

 

[dusterdave173]

FWIW your experience is far from normal. i have bought, sold and helped others buy great rifles than needed zero and it’s not that tough to do with a little homework as to ownership, history, provenance, especially if a new guy reaches out to any number of experienced competitors, usually more than willing to get you piointed in the right direction.
Far better, for a new guy instead of building something from the ground up.
Several feel that only problem guns come up for sale…..that’s absolute BS.

This is correct
Go to any good match make friends start asking. Most of those guys have plenty of quality rifles at home. And… they know the rifle which can get you started miles ahead of going from scratch

 

[Dannybcc]

I have a great shooting ARA factory class Tikka T1X I started with and had a really fun time competing with it. An expensive mistake was shooting my buddies 2500X.

 

[davidjoe]

If a new barrel has to have so many rounds down, it before it will shoot then most likely the chamber was not finished correctly. a good barrel will shoot from the start and that has to do with the smith finishing the leade. here are couple of examples showing the very first rounds shot on new barrels without tuners.

as far as guys claiming 100K rounds I have a 1411 Anschutz with a 12-year-old barrel and has that many rounds down it and it did a 10-shot 11mm group at Lapua in August.

Lee

Yeah, the bullets are lead, and then the lead is lubricated. Something like ~2 grains is the powder charge.

The little LR’s charge with primer is on the order of the fourth (quartic) root of a .223’s charge, while utilizing the same steel of the same volume.

To analogize, (loosely) if I have an engine that is reasonably happy producing 300 horsepower with a wear lifetime of “X” hours, well, the fourth root of 300 horsepower is a mere 4.16 horsepower.

Imagine what the rate of wear is for that engine when it is only tapped to produce 4.16 horsepower, and that does not consider the difference between copper and lubricated lead.

In slow fire match shooting, a .22 barrel’s temperature change is almost imperceptible. This is the style of shooting where the most accuracy is expected of the barrel, and it happens to be the format that is also easiest on the barrel.

I don’t think a diligent competitor will wear them out, at least from the bullets. Maybe 4 of them back to back over 60 years have a small chance, but I shot my first clean last night with 40-X that has been active for most of 50 years judging by its exterior.

There are methods of cleaning and solvents that are definitely more dangerous to barrels than match ammo is. And then there is an old gun’s other “acid” we call water.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Yeah, the bullets are lead, and then the lead is lubricated. Something like ~2 grains is the powder charge.

The little LR’s charge with primer is on the order of the fourth (quartic) root of a .223’s charge, while utilizing the same steel of the same volume.

To analogize, (loosely) if I have an engine that is reasonably happy producing 300 horsepower with a wear lifetime of “X” hours, well, the fourth root of 300 horsepower is a mere 4.16 horsepower.

Imagine what the rate of wear is for that engine when it is only tapped to produce 4.16 horsepower, and that does not consider the difference between copper and lubricated lead.

In slow fire match shooting, a .22 barrel’s temperature change is almost imperceptible. This is the style of shooting where the most accuracy is expected of the barrel, and it happens to be the format that is also easiest on the barrel.

I don’t think a diligent competitor will wear them out, at least from the bullets. Maybe 4 of them back to back over 60 years have a small chance, but I shot my first clean last night with 40-X that has been active for most of 50 years judging by its exterior.

There are methods of cleaning and solvents that are definitely more dangerous to barrels than match ammo is. And then there is an old gun’s other “acid” we call water.

I think you are missing my point. a good smith will finish the leade so any burrs are not present. Bill Calfee called it post chamber lapping. if burrs are present, it may take a few rounds to get the barrel to shoot to its potential also another term Bill Calfee liked to use is letting mother nature do its thing when you have shoot so many rounds first.
I use VFG felt pellets to clean every new barrel gets cleaned before I shoot it and I can tell if the chamber/leade was finished smooth by how the felt pellet will transition from chamber to the leade/rifling when pushing it through the barrel. if it only feels tight with no resistance then I know it is smooth and the examples I posted are of barrels that felt that way.

Lee

 

[TRSR8]

Yeah, the bullets are lead, and then the lead is lubricated. Something like ~2 grains is the powder charge.

The little LR’s charge with primer is on the order of the fourth (quartic) root of a .223’s charge, while utilizing the same steel of the same volume.

To analogize, (loosely) if I have an engine that is reasonably happy producing 300 horsepower with a wear lifetime of “X” hours, well, the fourth root of 300 horsepower is a mere 4.16 horsepower.

Imagine what the rate of wear is for that engine when it is only tapped to produce 4.16 horsepower, and that does not consider the difference between copper and lubricated lead.

In slow fire match shooting, a .22 barrel’s temperature change is almost imperceptible. This is the style of shooting where the most accuracy is expected of the barrel, and it happens to be the format that is also easiest on the barrel.

I don’t think a diligent competitor will wear them out, at least from the bullets. Maybe 4 of them back to back over 60 years have a small chance, but I shot my first clean last night with 40-X that has been active for most of 50 years judging by its exterior.

There are methods of cleaning and solvents that are definitely more dangerous to barrels than match ammo is. And then there is an old gun’s other “acid” we call water.

Very interesting. Unfortunately you’re missing factors contributing to that lifespan.
Start, perhaps with the history of priming compounds, especially regarding ELEY, and their impact on soft 416 steel.

 

[TRSR8]

I think you are missing my point. a good smith will finish the leade so any burrs are not present. Bill Calfee called it post chamber lapping. if burrs are present, it may take a few rounds to get the barrel to shoot to its potential also another term Bill Calfee liked to use is letting mother nature do its thing when you have shoot so many rounds first.
I use VFG felt pellets to clean every new barrel gets cleaned before I shoot it and I can tell if the chamber/leade was finished smooth by how the felt pellet will transition from chamber to the leade/rifling when pushing it through the barrel. if it only feels tight with no resistance then I know it is smooth and the examples I posted are of barrels that felt that way.

Lee

FWIW, there are a couple good smiths of the opinion that in some cases you’ll never shoot some burrs smooth.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

FWIW, there are a couple good smiths of the opinion that in some cases you’ll never shoot some burrs smooth.

Yes, with lead bullets that's going to be a long time and a lot of rounds.

Lee

 

[DShortt]

Given the priming compound content and power fouling, I question that. But that's just my thoughts.
Pull a few bullets, dump the powder. Fire the priming compound only. Check your bore condition.
Now, perhaps that's incomplete combustion due to virtually no pressure? Dunno.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I am talking about the leade post chamber finish not what the priming compound would do to the barrel that is something totally different.
I will put it another way if you rely on the priming compound to finish the chamber you are flipping a coin on whether it will be good or bad.

I like the odds better if it starts out good.

Lee

 

[DShortt]

I am talking about the leade post chamber finish not what the priming compound would do to the barrel that is something totally different.
I will put it another way if you rely on the priming compound to finish the chamber you are flipping a coin on whether it will be good or bad.

I like the odds better if it starts out good.

Lee

Not disputing that. I meant the claim that some burrs always remain.
If the reamer was sharp and the chamber cut concentric to the bore, that seems unlikely. If the reamer was basically 'smearing' rather than cutting then sure. Some of that will be there until the throat is shot completely out. Which would take a very long time in a 22lr.

 

[davidjoe]

Very interesting. Unfortunately you’re missing factors contributing to that lifespan.
Start, perhaps with the history of priming compounds, especially regarding ELEY, and their impact on soft 416 steel.

Please elaborate, I’m assuming that there was/is something different about it, and it’s detrimental to stainless steel? Primers have certainly caused corrosion of steel in the past.

I’ve been shooting RF rifles, primarily 40-X’s and 52’s, that all do predate the switch to stainless steel. Only yesterday did I actually acquire a modern single shot BR rifle (Ivan Wells stocked, three lug Vudoo/Shilen, with matching Arnold Machine rest).

I should keep in mind that most people shoot stainless barrels, and have for decades.

The longevity I’m observing in my old rifles may not be a universal sentiment, even in them. My experience with these original barrels though is that they just don’t seem to decline, meaning that the groups don’t get worse year in and year out and they don’t appear any different when borescoped. That includes a low 4 digit 40-X that’s probably 60ish, now.

 

[1911nut]

Calfee talked about a “hob” - a hardened polished steel to burnish out the reamer imperfections in the leade.
From Grok -

Bill Calfee and the Use of a Hob in Rimfire Chamber Finishing​

Bill Calfee (1944–2024) was a legendary American gunsmith, author, and innovator in the rimfire benchrest shooting community, renowned for his contributions to .22 LR accuracy, including the development and popularization of barrel tuners in the 1990s. He authored books like The Art of Rimfire Accuracy (2011) and shared decades of technical insights through forums, magazines like Precision Shooting, and his website (wwaccuracy.com). Calfee passed away on August 11, 2024, leaving a profound legacy in precision shooting.

In the context of your query, "a hob" refers to a specialized burnishing tool (often sourced from Precision Tooling Group or PTG) used in gunsmithing to polish and finish the chamber and leade (the ramped area where the bullet transitions into the rifling) of rimfire barrels. Unlike traditional hobbing (a metal-cutting process for gears or splines), Calfee's hob is a hardened, bullet-shaped or tapered tool designed for non-abrasive burnishing—essentially cold-working the metal surface to a mirror finish without removing material. This technique is a key part of his "chamber detailing" process, which he considered essential for eliminating reamer marks, burrs, and roughness that could degrade accuracy in lead-bulleted .22 LR cartridges.

 

[TRSR8]

Not disputing that. I meant the claim that some burrs always remain.
If the reamer was sharp and the chamber cut concentric to the bore, that seems unlikely. If the reamer was basically 'smearing' rather than cutting then sure. Some of that will be there until the throat is shot completely out. Which would take a very long time in

Please elaborate, I’m assuming that there was/is something different about it, and it’s detrimental to stainless steel? Primers have certainly caused corrosion of steel in the past.

I’ve been shooting RF rifles, primarily 40-X’s and 52’s, that all do predate the switch to stainless steel. Only yesterday did I actually acquire a modern single shot BR rifle (Ivan Wells stocked, three lug Vudoo/Shilen, with matching Arnold Machine rest).

I should keep in mind that most people shoot stainless barrels, and have for decades.

The longevity I’m observing in my old rifles may not be a universal sentiment, even in them. My experience with these original barrels though is that they just don’t seem to decline, meaning that the groups don’t get worse year in and year out and they don’t appear any different when borescoped. That includes a low 4 digit 40-X that’s probably 60ish, now.

As stated, most high grade match RF...SS bbl.
Avail yourself of search functions across forums to find extensive commentary about RF priming, which requires silicate to function....i.e. ground glass....i.e sharp ground glass. ELEY, for instance, had, for years, used a substrate large enough to get ironed into barrels resulting in pitting......lot's of pitting, mostly @ 6 o'clock. I've seen bbl with zero sharp edges on lands for several inches.
All RF ammo use it and it can and will deteriorate a quality barrel.
The ever popular MI barrels, many of them, have fairly short life cycles so if you're shooting vintage CM....not so much, but you're in a distinct minority.

 

[TRSR8]

I am talking about the leade post chamber finish not what the priming compound would do to the barrel that is something totally different.
I will put it another way if you rely on the priming compound to finish the chamber you are flipping a coin on whether it will be good or bad.

I like the odds better if it starts out good.

Lee

Lee,
Right you are. These guys that state their chambers require 1500 rounds is "mostly" BS.
The best smiths I ever heard of or know finish a chamber by lapping and properly indexing and lapping which is why their bbl usually shoot great right from the get go.
Whatever you may think of the departed WLM, he built some killer rifles and NEVER told a customer many rounds required. No doubt, some got better but not many from' fair to good".
That said, in this game, nobody bats 1000.

 

[68Hoyt]

Some people touched on some of these topics already
I thought Calfee wrote or stated one time ( or more ) that a lot of wining rifles were used rifles bought because they were not shooting as good as the shooter wanted ( usually a experienced shooter ) sold and the next owner used them experiencing them shooting better groups after more rounds were fired through them , I want to say he witnessed this multiple times .

Now the 100,000 rounds down the barrel thing , I went down this rabbit hole a few years ago and from what I gather ,
Chrome Molly steel is good for abrasion but not as good for heat , so centerfire will burn it out but not wear it out basically , so rimfire isn’t hot but it is dirty especially several years ago ( I think they cleaned up the powder /primer some since then , in fact I think eley was getting a bad wrap /reputation for eroding barrels ) and chrome Molly barrels will last longer on a rimfire
Stainless holds up better to heat but not as good for erosion , good for center fire but not so good for dirty rimfire , I had also found that stainless was easier to machine a good shooting barrel from than chrome Molly , plus everyone likes the stainless rust resistance
One benchrest shooter I talk to told me the stainless barrels last about 30/40,000 rounds before they become unacceptable for matches , he pulls them and his nephew uses them for projects , he said they were way accurate enough for sporters or serious plinkers
I’m my search for info I found a couple of other shooters that kept a rifle long enough to rebarrel and mentioned the same thing on replacing the stainless barrel around 35,000 rounds

 

[TRSR8]

Calfee talked about a “hob” - a hardened polished steel to burnish out the reamer imperfections in the leade.
From Grok -

Bill Calfee and the Use of a Hob in Rimfire Chamber Finishing​

Bill Calfee (1944–2024) was a legendary American gunsmith, author, and innovator in the rimfire benchrest shooting community, renowned for his contributions to .22 LR accuracy, including the development and popularization of barrel tuners in the 1990s. He authored books like The Art of Rimfire Accuracy (2011) and shared decades of technical insights through forums, magazines like Precision Shooting, and his website (wwaccuracy.com). Calfee passed away on August 11, 2024, leaving a profound legacy in precision shooting.

In the context of your query, "a hob" refers to a specialized burnishing tool (often sourced from Precision Tooling Group or PTG) used in gunsmithing to polish and finish the chamber and leade (the ramped area where the bullet transitions into the rifling) of rimfire barrels. Unlike traditional hobbing (a metal-cutting process for gears or splines), Calfee's hob is a hardened, bullet-shaped or tapered tool designed for non-abrasive burnishing—essentially cold-working the metal surface to a mirror finish without removing material. This technique is a key part of his "chamber detailing" process, which he considered essential for eliminating reamer marks, burrs, and roughness that could degrade accuracy in lead-bulleted .22 LR cartridges.

That was abandoned almost immediately after it was written about.
Much, in that book is outdated.