Going small
- Thread starter Leo_B
- Start date
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
and if you reload, make you mad every time you try to pick up one of those "little bitty bullets".
They probably still outshoot me.
There's just something I like about it. The Ruger American Ranch has a somewhat similar look but I don't believe accepts AR mags like the MVP.SBS
Gold $$ Contributor
If you are going with a factory cartridge, .222 and .223 are the best choices for your application. The .22-250 is a barrel burner -- compared to these two. The 2 above will serve you for many many rounds and be pleasant to shoot and easy to load for. The .204 Ruger lasts about as long as a .22-250 barrel, though it's more pleasant to shoot in a heavy barrel. The .20 Vartarg would be my choice for your purpose except it's not a factory round. Like the .222, it last for thousands of rounds, easy to find accurate loads for and has very mild recoil. If you are going to reload, I wouldn't worry about the caliber "going out the door". They've been saying that about the .222 for decades now and still quite popular with handloaders -- thousands of them out there being used, and brass will be around a long time. Not bashing the other calibers mentioned (I own most of them), just not what you stated you are looking for. If you are thinking of buying an economical factory rifle with a sporter barrel and trying to consistently shoot small groups, you will be disappointed. There is a reason that just a custom barrel blank (not chambered or even threaded for your action) costs more than some low end complete sporter rifles -- even though the custom barrels come directly from the maker, while the rifle complete with barrel, action, stock, and parts go through the manufacturer, distributor and wholesaler where each made a profit. Just no comparison as to quality of barrel., which is the main key to accuracy.
JohnW...ski
Gold $$ Contributor
and if you reload, make you mad every time you try to pick up one of those "little bitty bullets".
This is itty bitty.
I would love to have an enviable deluxe rifle but 1 my bank account won't support it and 2 my shooting would never catch up with it. I'm a go to the range and enjoy yourself guy, not a go to the range and impress anyone guy. And that's ok as I enjoy myself. So I'm trying to look at reasonable and reachable options that my shoulder and bank account will both support and appreciate.
Factoid: the abbreviated / over-simplified explanation of Grendel vs ARC
6.5 Grendel has been an established cartridge for +15 years with Alexander Arms trademarking the name “Grendel”. During this time it has been wildcatted (necked down) to a 6mm, known as 6mmAR, and also 22 AR / 22 Grendel. Neither of these two wildcats based on the 6.5 Grendel were SAAMI Certified. Hornady being the marketing machine that it is simply copied these cartridges (minor tweak to case), renamed them as if they were their proprietary development, and submitted them SAAMI Certified as 6 ARC and 22 ARC. Ta Da…
Based on what you have detailed as criteria and budget, and ignoring my personal preferences / bias, my recommendation are:
1) Cartridge: .223 Remington
> least expensive factory ammo and readily available everywhere.
> factory rifles are chambered in this cartridge by every manufacturer. No need for custom barrel or gunsmith for this cartridge.
> easy to reload with wide selection of reloading components (bullets, powder, brass, dies, etc).
2) Rifle: New Factory or Used Rifle with a medium weight barrel profile (20”-24”)
> Let go of Mossberg fantasy… they make a decent shotgun, but their rifles are not their strength. You need to focus on performance, and not get seduced by exterior appearance or brand loyalty. Sorry
> rifles to consider Bergara, Howa 1500, Savage, Ruger American Gen 2, and Tikka. I would look hard at Bergara, a lot of rifle for the money and becoming an industry sweetheart. For a factory rifle Tikka is superior in machining (smoothest factory action and accurate) and would be a stretch goal, but money well spent.
3) Optics:
There are several newer scope manufacturers, such as Arken, that deliver a tremendous value at an extremely reasonable price (5x25 for $500). Yes, most of these budget scopes are made in China. The secret is out that many of the scopes sold by different companies are actually made in same Chinese factory with only difference being exterior cosmetics. Some offer a premium model that features Japanese manufactured glass lenses. Do your research and watch some YouTube comparison videos to identify the right scope for you.
Good Lucky and Happy Shooting.
6.5 Grendel has been an established cartridge for +15 years with Alexander Arms trademarking the name “Grendel”. During this time it has been wildcatted (necked down) to a 6mm, known as 6mmAR, and also 22 AR / 22 Grendel. Neither of these two wildcats based on the 6.5 Grendel were SAAMI Certified. Hornady being the marketing machine that it is simply copied these cartridges (minor tweak to case), renamed them as if they were their proprietary development, and submitted them SAAMI Certified as 6 ARC and 22 ARC. Ta Da…
Based on what you have detailed as criteria and budget, and ignoring my personal preferences / bias, my recommendation are:
1) Cartridge: .223 Remington
> least expensive factory ammo and readily available everywhere.
> factory rifles are chambered in this cartridge by every manufacturer. No need for custom barrel or gunsmith for this cartridge.
> easy to reload with wide selection of reloading components (bullets, powder, brass, dies, etc).
2) Rifle: New Factory or Used Rifle with a medium weight barrel profile (20”-24”)
> Let go of Mossberg fantasy… they make a decent shotgun, but their rifles are not their strength. You need to focus on performance, and not get seduced by exterior appearance or brand loyalty. Sorry
> rifles to consider Bergara, Howa 1500, Savage, Ruger American Gen 2, and Tikka. I would look hard at Bergara, a lot of rifle for the money and becoming an industry sweetheart. For a factory rifle Tikka is superior in machining (smoothest factory action and accurate) and would be a stretch goal, but money well spent.
3) Optics:
There are several newer scope manufacturers, such as Arken, that deliver a tremendous value at an extremely reasonable price (5x25 for $500). Yes, most of these budget scopes are made in China. The secret is out that many of the scopes sold by different companies are actually made in same Chinese factory with only difference being exterior cosmetics. Some offer a premium model that features Japanese manufactured glass lenses. Do your research and watch some YouTube comparison videos to identify the right scope for you.
Good Lucky and Happy Shooting.
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Using the Hodgdon online Reloading Data Center I just found this .223 loading for a 55gr FMJ bullet, TiteGroup powder (one I bought prepping for .32 family of revolver rounds) 3.6gr and 1,065 fps. Those sound like handgun measures not rifle but they come up in the rifle data. Won't paste at all. But that's the gist, 55gr WIN FMJ, 3.6gr TiteGroup and 1065fps. Win SR primer. 24" 1:12 barrel. 2.195" COL.
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alf
Silver $$ Contributor
That is not for supersonic loads, only suitable for light/subsonic plinking loads, same use as Trailboss.
alf
Silver $$ Contributor
Well along those same lines, a couple months ago I was trying to find a subsonic load for my 9" twist 223. Both 50 & 55 grain Ballistic Tips would keyhole until I got well into supersonic range.Yes, but unlike the vast majority here who are shooters I am a plinker, and accept it. But sure have fun with it.
Decided I might as well shoot my suppressed 22 rimfires.
I'd reccommend as a minimum a Savage (but, see last line). My cheap Axis in .223 is the most accurate factory (mass produced) rifle I've ever shot and is still 1/2MOA after 6000 rounds.
If I were picking now I'd lean toward a Bergara or Tikka as long as I could get a heavier barrel model. I've seen several Bergara's shoot fairly small groups at longer ranges.
I also have a HOWA (6.5CM) and it is only sub MOA with some loads. I don't shoot it much and am shopping for a new barrel for it.
Cartridges. .223 is certainly a decent one. I am also recoil shy so my long range rifle is a 6BR. For short range I'd go .223 (especially if you want to shoot any factory ammo), .222 or .22PPC.
If you are looking at subsonic at 100yd I'd consider a decent air rifle or rimfire.
If I were picking now I'd lean toward a Bergara or Tikka as long as I could get a heavier barrel model. I've seen several Bergara's shoot fairly small groups at longer ranges.
I also have a HOWA (6.5CM) and it is only sub MOA with some loads. I don't shoot it much and am shopping for a new barrel for it.
Cartridges. .223 is certainly a decent one. I am also recoil shy so my long range rifle is a 6BR. For short range I'd go .223 (especially if you want to shoot any factory ammo), .222 or .22PPC.
If you are looking at subsonic at 100yd I'd consider a decent air rifle or rimfire.
sw282
Silver $$ Contributor
Your thoughts on shooting mirror mine Leo. l go to the range for FUN! l only compete against ME!
l prefer a 222Rem above ALL others. lt's more accurate and cheaper to shoot too. Being poor and retired l cannot afford Custom rifles. l would never be able to master a custom build's full potential. l prefer factory varmint rifles because of their extra weight. Most of these guns can shoot better than me. The public ranges in my area are limited to 100 or 200 yards. The distance l am most comfortable shooting.
l prefer a 222Rem above ALL others. lt's more accurate and cheaper to shoot too. Being poor and retired l cannot afford Custom rifles. l would never be able to master a custom build's full potential. l prefer factory varmint rifles because of their extra weight. Most of these guns can shoot better than me. The public ranges in my area are limited to 100 or 200 yards. The distance l am most comfortable shooting.
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Most of the Gen II in AR calibers do.They probably still outshoot me.
My pick would be a standard model in 6 ARC: the ARC takes the Grendel magazine but the 5.56 will take AR magazines.
The 308 class will take PMAGS or AICS, depending on how it’s set up.
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