Going Beyond Max Recommended Loads?

[MJT]

I have been looking for some advice on 6.5 Creedmoor loads for my powder and bullet (in this case H4350 & Berger 140 hybrids) and noticed that some of the best result were slightly above the maximum recommended load in the Berger handbook. For example the max load is 40.7 but many of the best results are around 42.7

What are your thoughts on going beyond the max load and how far do you go? Do you do this by examining the brass?

 

[Judd]

Berger's manual is known for being super conservative. The last load I worked up using that book I started .5 under max, not telling you to do the same.

In the 42's is where a Creedmoor shoots.

 

[Pablo]

In my experience the Berger manual is very conservative. I have several rifles that like loads that are sometimes as much as 15% more than the Berger manual calls max. When I'm over a book recommended max I increase powder charges .2 grains at a time until I have an indication it's getting to hot. Sticky bolt lift, or cratered primers are what I use for an indication it's getting too hot. Having said all that I have two rifles that don't tolerate anywhere near max loads in the Berger book. The point is they are all individuals, a guy has to be careful.

 

[CJ6]

Your gun,Your life....PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU'RE DOING. I don't think anyone is going to say that you can go (X) grains over book as a constant number. Work up your loads in small increments.

 

[Jammer Six]

Not me, not then, not now, not in the future.

Find different manuals as a first step. I've never been able to achieve anything by going over max that I couldn't achieve within published standards by another route.

 

[dkhunt14]

If the freebore in a gun is long, usually it will take more powder. Lots of variables involved, powder lot, bullet, freebore, and barrels are a few. You need to work up. Matt

 

[dkhunt14]

If the freebore in a gun is long, usually it will take more powder. Lots of variables involved, powder lot, bullet, freebore, and barrels are a few. You need to work up for your gun. Most reloading manuals are conservative and the guns aren't the same as Match shooters shoot. Must match shooters throat them out. It is really not going over but what the gun will shoot safely. Matt

 

[Berger.Fan222]

I've had too many instances of shortened case life and ruined guns (stuck cases) to be fond of loads above max. If I think a manual is overly conservative, I'll consult some additional sources and I might proceed with great caution if I really want more velocity.

But for most applications, it's easier to reduce the charge to the sweet spot at a slightly lower velocity than increasing the charge hoping to find the sweet spot at the next higher velocity.

 

[dmoran]

Above are cartridge schematics of two 300-WSM with Berger 190-VLD Hunting bullets.
- Top cartridge schematic is using a Custom chamber
- Bottom cartridge schematic is using a SAMMI chamber

The powder capacities under the bullet are:
- 65.5 grains for the Custom
- 62.1 grains for the SAMMI
A difference of 3.4-grain capacity variation between the two.
To achieve a common velocity level, one could expect 4 to 5000-psi difference between the two (or more).

As Matt was alluding to above, this is one of the aspects why "book load data" can be subjective.
Donovan

 

[ab_bentley]

I'll be the first to tell you that I run my cases as hot as they can go. Most of the time it's far above book max.

There are several factors involved with reloading above book max, such as how tight is your chamber, how short is your freebore, how many round are down the tube, and so on. Also how old or new is your powder, this is a big one with VV powders, all of this plays into the game.

Now as stated before, you can't say that xxgrs is where you can start, even with identical components, you need to start at a safe book level and work up until you see the pressure signs. Flat primers, ejector marks, sticky extraction, unexplained grouping, and so forth. Your rifle will tell you what it wants if you know how to read the groups.

Adam

 

[wboggs]

MJT
As others have noted, you must work up the load for your rifle. No short cuts as no two rifles are the same. Bill

 

[Shaggy357]

A buddy and I ordered 357 Supermags at the same time. Guns are one serial number apart. We ordered brass together, and he cast the bullets. When we each worked up loads, we came in about 3.0 grains different in powder. Considering 20.0-22.0 grains is typical, 3.0 difference is a lot. Velocity in the loads were close. Main difference, PRIMER! Same gun, case, bullet, powder, but different primer....

Like was said many times before, in the posts above, work up a load for YOUR gun. Your gun is likely quite different than the firearm or fixture that was used by the author of the book you are reading. Their data is reference for their gun, powder lot, primer, temperature, humidity, elevation, barometric pressure, etc. Follow normal reloading principles, work your way up, note the signs of accuracy while confirming signs of pressure. It doesn't have to be a one time process.....but it could be if you are not careful and utilize the reference and cautions associated with the loads you are developing.

Good luck. Shoot straight. Load safe.

Steve

 

[Lapua40X]

I've never understood why there's so much empty speculation about determining load limits.
Instead of experimenting in a realm of "I hope the rifle doesn't blow up" just go out and get yourself a strain gauge and be done with it.
http://www.ktgunsmith.com/straingauge.htm

 

[ireload2]

The strain gauge tells you nothing about how strong the rifle or the brass is until after the fact.
How strong the rifle is is not of much importance as long as it is stronger than the brass.
The only thing that will tell you where the brass will fail is the brass.

I've never understood why there's so much empty speculation about determining load limits.
Instead of experimenting in a realm of "I hope the rifle doesn't blow up" just go out and get yourself a strain gauge and be done with it.
http://www.ktgunsmith.com/straingauge.htm

 

[wboggs]

The strain gauge tells you nothing about how strong the rifle or the brass is until after the fact.
How strong the rifle is is not of much importance as long as it is stronger than the brass.
The only thing that will tell you where the brass will fail is the brass.

Agree, brass expanding and flowing into the ejector hole tell you that the limit has been exceeded. Working up slowly from below should predict most problems. Bill

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The internet has really messed up darwins theory

 

['Freak]

The strain gauge tells you nothing about how strong the rifle or the brass is until after the fact.
How strong the rifle is is not of much importance as long as it is stronger than the brass.
The only thing that will tell you where the brass will fail is the brass.

Why not, assuming reasonably accurate measurement is obtainable and beginning sessions with the firing of a “verification round(s)” then tweakin’ the instrument accordingly. The extent of chamber expansion can’t help but be directly related to the amount of pressure contained within.

 

[Fotheringill]

There is a simple answer why no powder, rifle manufacturers or anyone else will keep their recommended maximums low. LIABILITY POTENTIAL. You may not have an abused bolt, pin, chamber or whatever, but someone else looking for max load data just may.

As above, go slow, start low and as soon as you have the merest hint of signs of a potential problem, back off.