Maximum Recommended Loads

[JLT]

Manuals are GUIDES not absolutes...tell me which load you'd consider as a MAX book load.. Win. 270, 130 gr bullet, 59.4 grs. RL 19 AOL 3.210... OR 270 Win. 130 gr bullet 53.5 grs. RL 19 AOL 3.300....My answer is your combo will tell you whats MAX....edit to add: There are several cartridges that were (6.5 x 284 for eg.) or are wildcats that may have 1 manuals starting loads 3-4 grs. higher than another manuals MAX load. You need to be safe ,work up, but a manuals "listed" MAX means didleysquat in YOUR firearm. You may be WELL under or WELL over any given book loads, BUT IT'S YOUR GUN THAT GOING TO TELL WHAT'S WHAT (higher or lower).

'Amen' to that. 'Published maximum' isn't necessarily safe, either, and the same general observation applies to internal ballistics programs like QL. I worked up loads for my 6.5 Grendel this past weekend using AA2460. I encountered pressure signs well below the published maximum load. One should not look for shortcuts when one is dealing with 50K PSI+ just inches away from one's face. Be safe, y'all!

 

[amlevin]

For those that don't understand, stick with the book. For those that do understand, carry on and let YOUR rifle do the talking.

 

[snowpro440]

For those that don't understand, stick with the book. For those that do understand, carry on and let YOUR rifle do the talking.

My rifle tells me what it likes and my target gets read like a newspaper....

 

[CJ6]

That is precisely why I never take loads off the internet.

I only trust published sources.

So tell me...Which of the 270 Win. loads mentioned in post #8 is MAX , They are 5.9 grs. apart and BOTH published loads in CURRENT manuals.

 

[Liven The Dream]

I always like the Question give me your load for my .308 target Rifle. My barrel chamber twist maybe miles away from yours ? You load up ammo go to the Range and all Hell brakes loose .
Then you said this load. I will never give anyone my load ....
I may say start at 43.0 gr. of Varget and work up. The reply is I don't have time I am working and want to shoot Sunday.
If you don't want to do the work, Buy factory Ammo.

 

[Joe R]

I see from time to time on this forum folks posting loads well beyond maximum listed in the loading manuals and pressures recommended by industry. There is talk about sticky bolts and primers may or may not show pressure signs. There is not much talk about some of the other pressure signs that occur with these high pressure loads. Usually there is talk about trying to reach a node. Many reply as if all is well and the practice is normal. I am amazed that we do not see more posts about catastrophic failures and serious injuries from these risky practices. I am most concerned about folks new to reloading that think this is normal and ok and are lured into doing something that may result in serious injury. I am more disappointed that those experienced reloaders that know better do not throw the bull shit flag.

chkunz,
I appreciate your concern for newbies but I believe it is misplaced. I consider myself a very safety oriented person. Yet you make me sound as if I'm reckless.

IMO most of the guys hanging around here are very advanced handloaders. If they aren't most of what we talk about goes right over their heads. Sort of like Mom and Dad talking about some "R & R" at the dinner table with a seven year old sitting there.

When I was a newbie I adhered to max load religiously. But as I became a more proficient handloader and started participating in F-TR competitions I started to push the envelope. As I pushed the envelope I learned even more about the dynamics between powder, brass, bullet, chamber specs, barrel twist, neck tension, cartridge OAL, etc... As an example Sierra is the only manual (out of 4 that I have) that has the max load for Varget and a 200 grain bullet. They say the max is 38.0 grains. My load is 45.1. That's 18.6% over Sierra's max. But their OAL is 2.80 mine is 3.131 their neck tension is probably 5-10 times what mine is. I have no heavy bolt, I do have flattened primer, but show me a competitor that doesn't. Not only that but as my throat erodes I will have to move the bullet further out and have to increase the powder even more to maintain the velocity. What appear reckless to some is actually a very safe load.

It is fair to say that only a fool would think that these two rounds are similar. They are as similar as a factory Camaro is to a Camaro at Indy. Well, ...you know what they say about fools and saving them.

Kindest regards,

Joe

 

[Joe R]

By the way, here's another way to find out if you're pushing the envelope, use QuickLoad and a chronograph. You won't have to guess, you'll know when you are were you're supposed to be. No doubts, no guessing.

 

[amlevin]

So tell me...Which of the 270 Win. loads mentioned in post #8 is MAX , They are 5.9 grs. apart and BOTH published loads in CURRENT manuals.

Considering that "Current" printed manuals can be 2 years or more outdated because of editing and printing considerations, I'd go with the information "Published Online" by the Powder manufacturer/marketer. For them an update only takes a few strokes on a keyboard and doesn't have to wait for the next run at the printers. As new batches are prepared and tested, new data becomes available. That book you bought at a garage sale may even have information so outdated you shouldn't be using it (an extreme perhaps but possible).

 

[Homerange]

There are so many "little" things that can get a reloader into trouble....

A buddy that had finished his initial load development in a 7mm wildcat wanted to confirm some 1000 yd predictions.
Shots were falling 10" s high..... and higher pressures than experienced previously ......WTF
Rechecked all parameters on his ballistics program.....OK....WTF
More head scratching.....could it be higher velocities than previously developed?
Ran one shot over a crony that confirmed velocities where 50 fps more than they should've been...... WTF
Careful examination of his ammo supply confirmed his full power loads had been loaded into fire formed cases that hadn't had been fired to finished dimensions.
But the other end of his ammo box had......and he went on to shoot a 3" group @1000.

Now that's good shooting for a hunting rifle.

 

[Tuxedo007]

I'm completely in concurrence with the safety factor, but the wide safety margin painted by reloading manuals are asinine. To say that every rifle will react to a maximum load at this exact load is erroneous. And which load manual should we use, 99% of the time reloading manuals differ in max charges. The simple fact is that each rifle is different and reloading guides are just that, reference material, not gospel.

Adam

Not going to the safety factor issue...Safety should be foremost in everyone's mind! Comparing older manuals to newer ones, you will see some differences. Due to powder lots, primers, test firearms...Each rifle is a law unto itself. Also, if the loading manuals are so very accurate as perceived by some, why are the max loads different? Which manual is "right? Formerly, the "Gun magazines" had reloading columns & many times, articles on loading a particular caliber, etc. Not so any more! The answer would seem to be that since we live in such a litigious society, publishers do not wish to be exposed to possible lawsuits because some(many) go straight to the max velocity column & start with that load!! Ignorance can be fixed, but stupid is forever!! Careful workup, following reference materials, & learning what your particular rifle likes is prudent. Someone providing information on a load that is good in his rifle usually constitutes trying to be helpful. One should always work up the load to be sure it performs as hoped in his firearm. To the person wishing for the bullshit flag to be thrown...I'll throw it!, on his comments!

 

[CJ6]

Considering that "Current" printed manuals can be 2 years or more outdated because of editing and printing considerations, I'd go with the information "Published Online" by the Powder manufacturer/marketer. For them an update only takes a few strokes on a keyboard and doesn't have to wait for the next run at the printers. As new batches are prepared and tested, new data becomes available. That book you bought at a garage sale may even have information so outdated you shouldn't be using it (an extreme perhaps but possible).

I guess Sierra and Hornadys load manuals are not good enough then..Check their on-line sites and see if the loads differ....The lower load is Sierras Max ..The higher is Hornadys Max.

 

[MOShooter]

Manuals load to SAMMI length. Most guys on here load much longer than that. That fact alone will change the max charge. There are to many variables for a one size fits all book. Thats why most are called "guides". Start low, work up. Reloading is as much an art as it is science.

Scott

 

[Jammer Six]

Published manuals have research behind them that none of you have done. You don't have the equipment.

Stay off my range with your heavy loads.

I never take loads off the internet.

 

[aloreman]

Manuals load to SAMMI length. Most guys on here load much longer than that. That fact alone will change the max charge. There are to many variables for a one size fits all book. Thats why most are called "guides". Start low, work up. Reloading is as much an art as it is science.

Scott

this right here. The data collected is in there proof gun, on that day, with that lot number of powder, at that elevation, that temperature,ect ect. Learn to measure case heads and other signs of pressure. always hate when people think primers are the end all be all.

 

[amlevin]

Published manuals have research behind them that none of you have done. You don't have the equipment.

Stay off my range with your heavy loads. [your range???}

I never take loads off the internet.

That's an assumption on your part that isn't supported by fact. Some shooters actually have pressure measuring equipment. Ever hear of Pressure Trace?

https://www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm

About the same cost as some of the newer chronographs sold today.

 

[TheOtherZilla]

I always like the Question give me your load for my .308 target Rifle. My barrel chamber twist maybe miles away from yours ? You load up ammo go to the Range and all Hell brakes loose .
Then you said this load. I will never give anyone my load ....
I may say start at 43.0 gr. of Varget and work up. The reply is I don't have time I am working and want to shoot Sunday.
If you don't want to do the work, Buy factory Ammo.

Exactly.... I do the same, but I refrain from specifics.. Good advice here...

 

[TheOtherZilla]

So tell me...Which of the 270 Win. loads mentioned in post #8 is MAX , They are 5.9 grs. apart and BOTH published loads in CURRENT manuals.

I don't have much to add, but their bullet, their test barrel, their results.. Take it into consideration.. As someone else stated... Do your own research and testing..

 

[savagedasher]

Loading for max Can't be found in a book.
The internal volume of the case can very so much .
Your chamber is the same.
Bullets seated in the land's can add as much as 5000 PSI to the pressure.
Q L is the only thing I use . But when loading bullets if their not jumping .020 I add 3000 psi from max pressure .
Jamed I add 5000 psi . Then work up.
Temperatures on some powders make pressure to spike . That should be considered when loading also along with primers. Best advice start low and watch the temperature .
Larry

 

[Bill3508]

Bill 3508 I have inserted my comments into your reply. "All loads posted in books error on the side of caution." [this is not "error", it is wisdom] "You will always see pressure signs, and they will vary from rifle to rifle" [No, not always, I rarely see them because I do not go there]. "You normally have to grossly overload a round for most bolt guns depending on powder to cause issues.[not very comforting] "Autos are much more picky." [or less forgiving for risk] "It's not risky," [yes, that is exactly what it is, risk] it's just what it is [cop out]. "Because no brass or load reacts the same in every rifle it's all up to the user."[so lets not tempt folks who may be new to reloading to do risky things because some folks present risky as normal] "Even some of the book loads listed may show pressure signs if it's a tight chamber."[yes ] Nothing is a certainty or 100% accurate including what I just posted

Folks that want to understand loading need to know what pressure signs show. Even with their book load their rifle might show signs. If they don't know what to look for they could have issues. It's not risky if you pay attention to what your doing. A above max load in my rifle may show zero pressure signs while yours shows signs below max book load. It's more about knowing the signs and knowing your rifle and adapting from there on out. The books are just guides to help you, and are not 100 accurate.

Also no one recommends using others max or above max loads in your own rifle. You always work up because no rifle is the same.

 

[Milo 2.0]

If you see a questionable load published, call it. Haven't we had enough of regulating political correctness or human behavior.