Giraud trimmer "knife edge" debunked with photos

[jlow]

So I got the tool in today. Apart from the motorized trimmer, I got extra additional case holder and cutter head w/blade for the other calibers I shoot.

So here are some photos of both one of the reference .308 case that came along with the trimmer and a cutter head w/blade for my .260 (yes I know it use the same holder/case as the .308 but I want the trim length and blade fixed).

First the .308 case The reference case you can see that the deburr edge is quite shallow in angle with the chamfer edge significantly deeper (as you would hope). This reference case was not properly chamfered all the way around but I have since done one of my own and if you rotate the case after it starts to cut, you get an even chamfer all the way around.

The cutter head for the .260 is next. You can see the shallower angle for the deburr cutting surface (right) and the sharper angle for the chamfering (left). Most importantly, if you look at how the two cutting surface meet (middle), you can see that it is a smooth round interface and not a sharp edge. This guarantees that you will NOT get a knife edge.

 

[savagedasher]

Have you contacted them ? That is where I would start. Larry

 

[jlow]

Why would I contact them? I see no problem. My post was to show the non-knife edge trim and in no way a complain. The reference case was just not cut all the way around, a small hindsight but like I said it's not a problem if you turn the case (like you are suppose to).

 

[savagedasher]

Why would I contact them? I see no problem.

I took it you didn't like the cut . I agree with that. Larry

 

[jlow]

I took it you didn't like the cut . I agree with that. Larry

Larry, I LOVE the cut..... I just want those who has been worried about a knife edge cut to stop worrying..

 

[savagedasher]

Larry, I LOVE the cut..... I just want those who has been worried about a knife edge cut to stop worrying..

My bad glad your happy . Larry

 

[jlow]

My bad glad your happy . Larry

Just goes to show how easy it is to get misunderstanding over the web...

 

[savagedasher]

Just goes to show how easy it is to get misunderstanding over the web...

All the time . Some just can't admit it . Many here their skin is like glass .
Larry

 

[Ned Ludd]

I would call that a "butter knife" edge .

 

[jlow]

I would call that a "butter knife" edge .

Safer for us puppies!

 

[dedogs]

So here are some photos

Relly nice sharp photos. Please don't tell us you used a smart-phone to make those pictures.

 

[jlow]

Thank you! Not a smart-phone... However, even though I have expensive DSLRs and special close-up lens, for these photos, I only used a relatively cheap Nikon Coolpix. The trick is to use a tripod, a self timer, and their build-in close-up features which as you can see allows very decent close-up photos.

 

[Brians356]

Most importantly, if you look at how the two cutting surface meet (middle), you can see that it is a smooth round interface and not a sharp edge. This guarantees that you will NOT get a knife edge.

The photo of the cutter itself shows there is a radiused transition between the two cutting edges. However, if you adjusted the cutter far enough in one direction, so that you had severe chamfer but zero deburr, you could then get a sharp edge.

I'd be very interested in seeing a good image of where the two cuts meet on the side opposite the camera, where the chamfer is much more pronounced (but the photo is too out of focus.) Or, a similar shot of a case which you rotated while trimming, so as to make the chamfer the same depth all the way around the neck.
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[Slickrick0999]

The photo of the cutter itself shows there is a radiused transition between the two cutting edges. However, if you adjusted the cutter far enough in one direction, so that you had severe chamfer but zero deburr, you could then get a sharp edge.

I'd be very interested in seeing a good image of where the two cuts meet on the side opposite the camera, where the chamfer is much more pronounced (but the photo is too out of focus.) Or, a similar shot of a case which you rotated while trimming, so as to make the chamfer the same depth all the way around the neck.
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Brian,
You obviously don't want to think the Giraud is a good trimmer. You continually criticize the pictures and find things wrong. My suggestion to you is to not buy one. I don't think you could be happy with it no matter what it does. By you not buying one, that means someone else will get theirs sooner and be very happy with it.
If you are happy trimming your way, continue on.

 

[BP1]

I'm kind of upset with mine once I found out about the knife edge and trimmed some 22 cal and 30 cal cases to punch out some finger foods for the football game and nothing happened.

 

[Brians356]

[Edit: Corrected a misstatement confusing two different active Giraud threads.]

Brian,
You obviously don't want to think the Giraud is a good trimmer.

I never said the Giraud is a bad trimmer. I said I don't like my case necks made overly thin at the ends. I mentioned "sharp edge" originally (in the other thread) because I found photos indicating that was how it cuts. And also a couple other chaps in the other Giraud thread (who have used a Giraud) have said it forms a sharp edge. Have you found time yet to take those chaps to task?

You continually criticize the pictures and find things wrong.

An indistinct photo is what it is, and worth calling out as such if it can't settle the question it was intended to settle.

The only thing I found "wrong" with the Giraud is the profile it cuts on the edge of the neck. It took a lot of back and forth and asking for pictures to resolve that. I posted clear pictures (you might want to review those) of cases with a very sharp "knife" edge. Those are not a figment of my imagination. I have also now seen photos like the one "jlow" posted, and also photos of the cutter, indicating there is a radius between the chamfer and deburr edges which forms a narrow rounded edge, what someone called a dull "butter knife" edge. I suspect Giraud changed the cutter profile, and there may be "early" and "recent" examples of cut cases. Then there's the adjustment, moving the cutter from the chamfer side to the deburr side, which if someone adjusted to one extreme direction, could still form a sharp edge.

My suggestion to you is to not buy one.

No worries, mate!

I don't think you could be happy with it no matter what it does.

I appreciate your concern for my happiness. I would have been unhappy indeed to have bought one, not knowing exactly how it cuts. I have disposable income, but I don't like flinging it around blindly. The only way to discover how it worked a priori was to ask questions, and look at photos. It was like pulling teeth at times, but I finally have the facts I need, thanks to helpful chaps like you. Whether the formed edge is sharp or dull, it's still waaaay too narrow for me.

By you not buying one, that means someone else will get theirs sooner and be very happy with it.
If you are happy trimming your way, continue on.

Thanks. Very generous of you, sir.
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[jlow]

The photo of the cutter itself shows there is a radiused transition between the two cutting edges. However, if you adjusted the cutter far enough in one direction, so that you had severe chamfer but zero deburr, you could then get a sharp edge.

I'd be very interested in seeing a good image of where the two cuts meet on the side opposite the camera, where the chamfer is much more pronounced (but the photo is too out of focus.) Or, a similar shot of a case which you rotated while trimming, so as to make the chamfer the same depth all the way around the neck.
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I am offsite and so no photos but even if what you say is true about the possibility of adjusting in a way to get a sharp edge is correct, my suggestion is to simply not to do that.

In terms of it not used to have a radius, I don't know but why would you care if you are buying a new one?

 

[Brians356]

I am offsite and so no photos but even if what you say is true about the possibility of adjusting in a way to get a sharp edge is correct, my suggestion is to simply not to do that.

I'm sure that's sensible advice. But my observation was only in response to "This guarantees that you will NOT get a knife edge."

In terms of it not used to have a radius, I don't know but why would you care if you are buying a new one?

Certain parties have contended the Giraud never left a sharp edge. Others have said it does (or did), and available photographic evidence tends to confirm that. My observation about a possible cutter profile change was intended to help explain the confusion.

But to your specific question, in point of fact there are of course used Girauds out there for sale. So the whole question of how a particular example will function is germane, it seems to me.
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[jlow]

I'm sure that's sensible advice. But my observation was only in response to "This guarantees that you will NOT get a knife edge."



Certain parties have contended the Giraud never left a sharp edge. Others have said it does (or did), and available photographic evidence tends to confirm that. My observation about a possible cutter profile change was intended to help explain the confusion.

But to your specific question, in point of fact there are of course used Girauds out there for sale. So the whole question of how a particular example will function is germane, it seems to me.
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Well it is certainly true that there is NEVER any guarantee against idiots, but I did not realized that we were talking about that......

I think the idea that there are used Girauds out there that produced a knife edge is pure conjecture and COMPLETE remains to be proven like other things such as certain moons are made of blue cheese....

 

[Steve Blair]

But to your specific question, in point of fact there are of course used Girauds out there for sale. So the whole question of how a particular example will function is germane, it seems to me.
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I don't see many used Girauds, but the answer in that scenario is to buy new cutter blades (inexpensive) and still derive the financial benefit of a used unit.

Even if you had older cutters that might have a sharper transition; I've had many custom cutting tools ground and a competent grind shop could give you whatever you want in that "V".