Getting tired of the equiptment race.

[dreever]

Yep, I'm getting tired of the race to keep up just to stay competitive. It's there in every organized shooting disipline including some semi organized ones as well. Heck, even at your local club match if you want a chance of winning you better be prepared to spend the $$$. I'm as guility as the next guy. Started out with an out of the box Remington 700 with a 10X scope to shoot Ground Hog Matches. Now a few years and THOUSANDS of dollars later it's the same matches but vastly different equiptment. Even the Factory classes require a Nightforce/March/ whatever scope to be competitive. Spotting scopes to try to see bullet holes, very big bucks there too.
Look at F-Class. From Harris bi-pods to super wide space jobs on rifles with barrels so long they won't fit in a normal gun case. Yep, and they have $2000+++ optics on them too.
What's the answer? There isn't one, it's called progress. However look around at those matches do you see any young guys there? Perhaps one or two, but the majority are old farts like me. The young married guy with a wife and family can't afford to compete so he just stays home or comes out to watch.
This is what killed NHRA drag racing. Back in the fifties it was run what you brung which was usually the same care you drove to work and to the grocery store. Not anymore. Even the stock classes are trailered in. They aren't street cars anymore.
So, yep, I'm getting tired of it all. I think I'll pass on that new 2014 model Nightforce Competition scope that just put the 2013 model out of date and in the For Sale column. Sure I could buy one, but like I said in the begining I'm just getting tired of it all.

Danny

 

[ebb]

You might want to look at vintage sniper rifle matches. Snipershide has a section on vintage sniper rifles you could look at.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

To a point I think its a mental thing. Will you shoot better with a $2500 NF vs a $1000 leupold? Nope, its just nicer. At the end of the day its bullets and barrels. JMO.

 

[Joe R]

Danny,
I understand how you feel. I'm not even a competitor and I'm now buying custom rifles that just a couple years ago I thought they were "old men follies". And the one year old Oehler 35 is now retro compared to the magnetospeed chronograph.

At the end of the day life it's all about the journey, not the destination. On this Easter morning it is good to remember that there is more to life than what meets the eye. I don't compete because the matches are held on Sundays and for me that's a non-starter. My faith, and the friendships I have through my church and Sunday school class are way more important that anything else. Sometimes I need my faith to sustain me with dealing with my family (children, in-laws, sisters, etc...)

Rifle and shooting is for fun, it isn't a replacement for being part of a community of believers. You don't have a soul, you are a soul having an earthly experience. The hole you're feeling needs to be filled and guns or other possessions aren't going to do it. It's time to try a church and a Sunday school class.

Happy Easter,

Joe

 

[338 Mollett]

I agree it has become a gadget game,especially when guys go through a dozen barrels to find a hot one,most folks can,t afford that or instant access to a gunsmith.

 

[watercam]

Wish we had the answer for all of us! For me the answer was to stick with one discipline (Palma) that one can shoot for a variety of match types. One caliber, barrels that last, save my cash for gas and components. That and long range small bore!

 

[jonbearman]

I quite agree with the equipment race thing.Back when I was competing in archery comps,I started with a compound.It suddenly became apparent that the race was on.I bought another one and thats where it stopped.I had to listen to all the cry babies complain that the next best thing was in the showroom and they couldnt compete without it.So I switched to all traditional equipment and never looked back. I had the same bow for over a decade,then when I felt like it I would on occasion buy a newer used one to play with.Then I started competing again and winning and realized that it was starting all over again.So I quit when I saw all the cheating going on.Now I am back to guns and I like what I have and also collect but I am not going to buy several more to compete with just because,cant really afford it any way.What happens is guys with alot of disposable income start the race along with the vendors bringing out newer better equipment and there is always someone standing inline to buy it.Then you get to thinking that to stay competitive you have to have a new march scope to be competitive after you already shot real well in the first place and your mind makes you think that useless old 45 power leupold just isnt up to snuff anymore.I realize that optics are getting better but you can still win as long as you dont lose the mental game of realizing you can still do it without the latest 3500.00 scope.Keeping in mind that I could have bought a new truck just the way I wanted it in 1976 new off the showroom floor.Everything morphs into something better but the law of diminishing returns and bites you hard.Do you win 100,000.00 every time you win.No you dont ,it is not like nascar with heavy duty money behind it.In the end you are still competing with yourself in a way as there is nothing to win but points,alittle money and sometimes a nice 3.00 plastic trophy for prestige or memories of the fun of shooting competitively and meeting nice people and making life friends which means more to me than being in the hall of fame.I twould be cool but I am too old to worry about being somebody anymore because you realize that family and friends and Jesus mean more than all of the above.If I ever win a real match I will be happy but the next morning it will be me again downstairs cleaning rifles.I have the utmost respect for past winners and future winners but the money game just plain sucks. It takes the fun and turns it into a business.

 

[Shynloco]

Wish we had the answer for all of us! .....

In my view, the only answer is the one each of us set for oursleves. Face it, alot of this has not to do with the love of shooting alone, it has to do with EGO to be the best there is. It's the thrill of competition for some and perhaps its the "standard" of the tools you need to get to the top of the heap. Now of course, the equipment alone won't get you there and some have more talent and skill than others. But that also won't stop some who can afford the race to the top. And as we get older, that call from within gets louder and louder to build at least that one shooter to test us. Of course by then, for some age has caught up and our eyes ain't what they once where and no matter how good that new custom built baby shoots, chances are greater that some talented young stud can better show what that new $7000 rifle will shoot (No Bill I'm not referring to you). But who gives a crap because the day is comin, at least for me that the $4000 custom (cheapie because it only has a $1000 scope that's not included in the $4,000) that I recently had built, will be countered with one of those REALLY REALLY nice rigs that I'm seeing as of late. And why you ask...because I want one and I'm really nothing more than a kid at heart who wants a REALLY NICE TOP OF THE HEAP TOY!

Alex

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Competitiveness is not entirely (or even mostly) about equipment. How many believe that they could borrow Tony Boyer's rifle and beat him with it?

Reading conditions is still what separates the shooters from the trigger pullers.

However, when margins of victory in point-blank BR are measured in thousandths of an inch (sometimes even less than 0.001), it is certainly true that those with the resources to test many barrels and many lots of bullets have a distinct edge.

By analogy to motorsports, I suppose that you could start a "claim" class where any rifle on the line can be claimed by another shooter for, say, $3000 (or maybe a barrel for $1000). Even then, there could be shooters who would spend $5K in components and let them go for $3K just to be competitive at a big shoot.

Following the same analogy, you could shoot a "spec" class with affordable components, something like factory class or F/TR are meant to be. Again, the wealthier, more serious competitor will simply sort through a lot of factory rifles (or F/TR barrels) to find the best.

There's no getting around the fact that the search for better equipment costs money, and that better equipment gives the shooter an advantage. But over the long run the driver matters more than the equipment.

 

[MarkS]

Danny,

I do agree. I shot USPSA in the late 80' to 93'. I was behind in the equipment race. I had a 45 when the 38 super was the up and coming thing held 2 more rounds. When I built a 38 super, then the High cap gun came a long. I was behind again. I was looking at $3500, in 93' to stay in the race, I just gave it up.

I went to Sporting clays, It can be a race also, if you let. But you can go as far as you want with a old Remington 1100.

Then I got into long range rifle. That is what you are talking about. I have done what most do, Custom guns and NF scopes.

I am now looking back into Pistol shooting. USPSA and IDPA have stock classes, but now my handicap is my old eyes, and bad knees.

It would be nice to shoot something, that did not cost you big $$$ and just on your shooting skills.

Mark Schronce

 

[Gergg]

Not much different than golf/fishing/archery/other shooting sports/etc.....new "better" equipment always comes along, most times it is the guy behind the stuff, not the stuff. I'm a competition junky, I always have to operate on a budget, but I think wise choices and some DIY solutions allow one to be competitive without breaking the bank. You either play or do something else, seems like that something else always end up being costly too.

 

[dreever]

I see that I'm not alone.
Here's another example.
Just looking at the prices for a new Nightforce Competition 2014 model is $2352.00 You now can buy a new 2013 model for $1750.00. That means that the scope you bought less than six months ago can now be bought for $602.00 less than what you paid for it! So your new or should I say old scope is worth even less on the used market since they are everywhere. Geeezzzz that was a good investment wasn't it? You'd like to upgrade since the 2014 model has all the things you wanted in the 2013 model but didn't get so you sell your 2013 model for lets say $1600.00 (if you can get it) so you now have to pony up another $750.00 just to stay on top six months later.

Or... you run away screaming pulling your hair out....I think that's me right now.

Danny

 

[dreever]

Another thing that has me thinking. Why do you think Nightforce discontinued the excellent NXS 12-42 leaving the top NXS magnification at 8-32?

Makes it a lot easier to sell the extra magnification (and higher price) of the Competition models dosen't it? Wouldn't surprise me if you don't see the 12-42 BR going the way of the Dodo next. That scope still gives you a lot of optic bang for the buck.

 

[johara1]

Any action that straight is competitive. Any scope that will hold point of impact is good and any quality rings and mount will work. Any stock that tracks good is competitive and a good bed job is a must Any rest that will hold the gun tight will work and same as the rear bag. Put your money in barrels and learn to load quality ammo and you can be competitive at 600-1000 yds. and learn to read the wind and you will do your share of winning ……. jim

 

[letronshootit]

A great thread to ponder about competitive shooting and the money spent, I have only been hooked for 3 years and it is addictive and the most fun I have had with rifles for a long time. No regrets, got my family in it so now its just not me collecting guns or whatever its spending time with them doing something I love. Part of the journey through the joy of shooting sports, I still enjoy Sporting Clays and local Turkey shoots but VBR is shooting gallery instant gratification of a hit that they can all get a thrill on. A budget has kept the costs down buying several rifles for us to use but friendships have been made and shooting 1k is what most rifleman have always wanted to do at some point. The guns I have collected and coveted over the years don't seem to mean as much as they used to now, so weeding them out and putting the cash towards something we can enjoy is where I am at now. If you can involve family and keep within a budget it is worth the money spent.....Ron

 

[Raythemanroe]

A great thread to ponder about competitive shooting and the money spent, I have only been hooked for 3 years and it is addictive and the most fun I have had with rifles for a long time. No regrets, got my family in it so now its just not me collecting guns or whatever its spending time with them doing something I love. Part of the journey through the joy of shooting sports, I still enjoy Sporting Clays and local Turkey shoots but VBR is shooting gallery instant gratification of a hit that they can all get a thrill on. A budget has kept the costs down buying several rifles for us to use but friendships have been made and shooting 1k is what most rifleman have always wanted to do at some point. The guns I have collected and coveted over the years don't seem to mean as much as they used to now, so weeding them out and putting the cash towards something we can enjoy is where I am at now. If you can involve family and keep within a budget it is worth the money spent.....Ron

I like this statement, It is what "you" make of it.. I want to get my kids involved in shooting and look at my expense as there start and I hope they go on to be great at it...

Ray

 

[Uthink Uknow]

What happened?
There was one game that put a limit on how much could be spent on a rig. I believe it was the rifle complete with scope. If you won a match with it, don't know if it was a yardage or the two yardages. Anyone shooting that game could buy your rig for the money limit. It would be like a claiming race in horse racing, if I remember right. So, who would build a $4000.00 rifle if you won with it but had to sell it for, say $1500.00? I'd have to blow the last shot if I was even in contention to win.

 

[WyleWD]

Competitiveness is not entirely (or even mostly) about equipment. How many believe that they could borrow Tony Boyer's rifle and beat him with it?

Reading conditions is still what separates the shooters from the trigger pullers.

I totally agree with tobybradshaw's statements quoted above. To that I would add that there are (IMHO) a fair number of shooters that see someone come in to a shoot with some intimidating looking rifle, scope, tuner, etc etc and they get psyched out by it. Personally I pay very little attention to someone else's equipment till maybe (?) after the match. You have to stay focused on why you're there. Again, JMHO. WD

 

[M14AMU]

Hmmm....I'm wondering just how many Riflesmiths and the owner's of NF are sitting and reading this post and grinning from ear to ear and saying to themselves....."Yeah....we got the dummies!"

 

[SS427]

I appreciate the technology innovations and hope that never stops.

I don't think Night Force introduced the basic 2013 competition models with the intent of introducing new and improved models in 2014 just to make more money off you. Or did they? Any competition is as much about business and making money as it is about sorting out who is the best.