i came across a vintage savage 25-20 at the range today. the gent said he was having trouble stabilizing his shots. he showed me the rounds he was shooting, home made lead,he told me that there was virtually no copper rounds put thru the gun. he asked if i wanted to buy it, damn straight i told him , major reason was is that he had an original clip for it and that was the grail id been searching for for 30 years. i have the exact model here at the house. so,,,,,,,i just spent the better part of an hour trying to get this puppy clean...i have not tried any hi-tech stuff for 2 reasons, 1 i dont know what to get, 2 i dont have it,,,ssoooo if theres anyone out there to point me in the right direction to a cleaner i can use for this badly fouled gun id be much obliged.....