German, Your Barrel Break in
- Thread starter Greg110
- Start date
I saw that too. Seemed like it must have been a slow news day.
I also think to much is made of barrel break in per se, but I do notice new barrels act a little odd for the first batch of rounds. I don't do any load or chrono work until after it has a match through it.
If I was a bench rest guy I might do a break in. I don't see the point for an Highpower guy.
I also think to much is made of barrel break in per se, but I do notice new barrels act a little odd for the first batch of rounds. I don't do any load or chrono work until after it has a match through it.
If I was a bench rest guy I might do a break in. I don't see the point for an Highpower guy.
jonbearman
I live in new york state,how unfortunate !
Most guys shoot 1 round and clean each time for 10 times and then 3 shotss cleaning after evry 3 for 15 shots.Then you are good to go.And dont heat the barrel up during this process and never get it hot ever.Shoot slow if you can and let it stand with the bolt out to cool it between shots.This will allow it to be repeatable with a cold shot.
I don't see the need to break in high grade custom barrels; most are lapped after production. However, factory barrels are notorious for being rough. They are not lapped, so that some kind of break in should be done. There are various methods to do this, and some factory barrels will never smooth out. I like JB or Iosso.
Hart Barrels also believe's that a break-in is not needed, and for a hand-lapped barrel I would agree, except for the reamer and tooling marks that may (or may not) have been left in the throat when the chamber was cut. I've had chambers cut that did not have a single mark in the throat & with these barrels break-in was minimal, shoot 1 clean, shoot 3 clean, then 5 then 10, then fagetaboudit. Other barrels though, as seen with my Hawkeye, did have some minor tool marks across the surface of the lands, and they did require a little more break-in. So, in my opinion, based on what I've seen with the borescope, and the amount of copper that comes out of a new barrel, like many other things, the amount of break-in will vary from one barrel to the next. Recently had a new button rifled barrel, by a big name producer that copper fouled a tremendous amount. Fire one shot, clean out the powder, and most of the bore looked like it was painted with copper paint. Was really getting worried that the barrel would have to go back, but as if by magic, after 12 to 15 rounds were fired, cleaning after each shot, all copper fouling stopped, and that barrel is now one of my easiest to clean. Others have been copper free after as few as 5 shots. They are all different in their requirements: let the amount of copper coming out be your guide as to how much break-in is required. I won't even comment on factory barrels, they are a crap shoot, at best. 
Greg, you're right, I am of that same opinion and that has always worked well for me. I'm not speaking of factory barrels, just the usual Highpower match barrels: Krieger, Bartlein, Hart, etc.
The blank article was a bit of a gag, but it does reflect my basic belief of: "break-in, what break-in?" Anyway, if it got a smile from anyone, that's all it was meant to do; if someone is of the opinion that a break-in process is helpful, then he should certainly do it. To me, it's one of those "whatever seems to work for you" things and we each have our way.
Off to the range now for some real fun!
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/11/equipment-barrel-break-in.html
The blank article was a bit of a gag, but it does reflect my basic belief of: "break-in, what break-in?" Anyway, if it got a smile from anyone, that's all it was meant to do; if someone is of the opinion that a break-in process is helpful, then he should certainly do it. To me, it's one of those "whatever seems to work for you" things and we each have our way.
Off to the range now for some real fun!
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/11/equipment-barrel-break-in.html
I’ve been using the same break-in procedure for years and it accomplishes several things.
I fire one shot and clean for 5 rounds. I do this all with the same piece of brass. By doing this I can tell approximately how long a particular load in this chamber with this brass is going to go before the primer pockets start to get loose, the necks start to thin and stretch, etc.
After that, I select 5 lots of three pieces of brass and fire 3 shots and clean for a total of 20 shots down the bore. During this phase, I’m doing some initial load development with the brass and primers being the only constants. Every round is run through the chrono and the results recorded. By the time I have 20 rounds down range, I feel I have accomplished several things.
1. I’ve got a real good start on what this bbl. likes/doesn’t like in both bullets and powders.
2. I’ve established baselines for max loads and “sweet spots” with a given combination and finally,
3. All the small, but still present tooling marks, sharp corners, etc. are mostly gone, and the cleaning bears that out. The 1st few rounds may take 20 patches to get everything out. By the 20th round, maybe 3-5.
4. Finally, and most important to me, if all of this is for naught, I still sleep better at night.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd
I fire one shot and clean for 5 rounds. I do this all with the same piece of brass. By doing this I can tell approximately how long a particular load in this chamber with this brass is going to go before the primer pockets start to get loose, the necks start to thin and stretch, etc.
After that, I select 5 lots of three pieces of brass and fire 3 shots and clean for a total of 20 shots down the bore. During this phase, I’m doing some initial load development with the brass and primers being the only constants. Every round is run through the chrono and the results recorded. By the time I have 20 rounds down range, I feel I have accomplished several things.
1. I’ve got a real good start on what this bbl. likes/doesn’t like in both bullets and powders.
2. I’ve established baselines for max loads and “sweet spots” with a given combination and finally,
3. All the small, but still present tooling marks, sharp corners, etc. are mostly gone, and the cleaning bears that out. The 1st few rounds may take 20 patches to get everything out. By the 20th round, maybe 3-5.
4. Finally, and most important to me, if all of this is for naught, I still sleep better at night.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd
I have 2 questions for the guys who believe bbl breakin is a waist.
1) Why do guns seem to start shooting thier best after 100 - 150 rounds? I have seen it, and heard many , many top shooters say the same thing.
2) Why does a bbl clean up WAY easier after "break-in" than after the first shot? I am talking about match grade bbls fron the top bbl mfgrs?
Something changes in that bbl from the first shot to the 50th, 100th, ect...
1) Why do guns seem to start shooting thier best after 100 - 150 rounds? I have seen it, and heard many , many top shooters say the same thing.
2) Why does a bbl clean up WAY easier after "break-in" than after the first shot? I am talking about match grade bbls fron the top bbl mfgrs?
Something changes in that bbl from the first shot to the 50th, 100th, ect...
4xforfun said:
they do?
i for one would like to see come research data on that subject. the usual "i think so" and "i saw it myself" quotes are too biased and subjective to count.
4xforfun said:
who needs data and research when you can just write with caps lock on instead.
cheesh :
it's kickin a Dead Horse anyways,
Factory barrels aren't as clean cut as custom, what kind of research do you need to prove that?
Some guy's want to break-in, some don't. I have found all my factory barrels clean and shoot better after they have been shot and cleaned several times.
Do I go through some mystical "Break-in" proceedure? NO. I just shoot'm and notice that they'er better after a few 100 rounds,.
Is THAT Break-In? Who cares,,(?) whatever works best for the gun's owner is what works best.
it's kickin a Dead Horse anyways,Factory barrels aren't as clean cut as custom, what kind of research do you need to prove that?
Some guy's want to break-in, some don't. I have found all my factory barrels clean and shoot better after they have been shot and cleaned several times.
Do I go through some mystical "Break-in" proceedure? NO. I just shoot'm and notice that they'er better after a few 100 rounds,.
Is THAT Break-In? Who cares,,(?) whatever works best for the gun's owner is what works best.
This year I bought 2 new factory rifles, one with a crome-moly 28'' barrel in 223 that did not get broken in. It was shot about 30 times before the first light cleaning. Settled in to cleaning with patches only every 30 to 50 rounds. After close to 900 rounds it shoots terrific (.5'' to .75'' for five shots at 200 yds......all the time).
The second rifle is a stainless 30'' barrel in 6BR that I meticulously broke in ( carbon and copper clean every shot 10 times, every 3 shots 5 times, every 5 shots 5 times). With the debate over break-in versus no break-in having no clear winner, I wanted at least some peace of mind on how I treated the rifle. But, after 250 rounds it doesn't come anywhere near grouping like the first rifle. A 1'' group at 200 yds is hard to come by. Plus it fouls so quickly with copper that I'm wondering if the break-in procedure actually made things worse.
I'm gonna need a real good reason to go the trouble of breaking-in another barrel so carefully.
The second rifle is a stainless 30'' barrel in 6BR that I meticulously broke in ( carbon and copper clean every shot 10 times, every 3 shots 5 times, every 5 shots 5 times). With the debate over break-in versus no break-in having no clear winner, I wanted at least some peace of mind on how I treated the rifle. But, after 250 rounds it doesn't come anywhere near grouping like the first rifle. A 1'' group at 200 yds is hard to come by. Plus it fouls so quickly with copper that I'm wondering if the break-in procedure actually made things worse.
I'm gonna need a real good reason to go the trouble of breaking-in another barrel so carefully.
Tozguy, How often due you clean the 30" 6br barrel? (how many rounds between cleanings). Here are some thoughts, and I'm not telling you that your wrong, and I'm right. Just some thoughts and possiblities from what I have seen in Factory bbls and Hand lapped barrels.
I broke in my factory barrels, not by any set process. I let the barrel tell me what to do. I just started out with one shot clean rule untill copper fell off, and so on with 3 shots and 5 shots. I also kept up with what the throat and Crown looked like with a Hawkeye bore scope. Now copper never completly went away with a factory barrel it only held less, but still a lot of copper when compared to my Broughton 5c 6BR barrel. Now when I get to about 150rnds down the factory 308 barrel It gets a good cleaning. Because Accuracy starts to fall off (too much fouling). I do clean the barrel down to bare metal. After the barrel has been cleaned to bare metal the guns shoots like crap! Then after about 15rnds my accuracy comes back. If you haven't ever looked into a factory barrel with a Hawkeye bore scope? I can tell you it is a ugly sight!! Makes me wonder how any factory barrel will shoot as well as some of them do.
Ok, when I broke in my Broughton 5c barrel in 6br there were hardly any reamer marks in my throat. My smith done a good job chambering the barrel. The barrel broke in YES in less than 5 rounds. After the 3rd shot I seen no copper in the barrel or on my patches at all. So I shot about 25rnds in 5 shot sessions after that. The last 5 shots of the day I ran two wet patches of butches down the barrel while it was still warm. Came home and about two hrs later got the gun up in my vice and made 10 passes with a wet broze brush. Only down the barrel, not back accross the crown. After that It only took FOUR wet patches of Butches to get the barrel clean! There was only just some copper after 25rnds on the first patch and the rest was all powder residue and carbon.
I think with factory barrels the reamer marks from the throat to the crown never really go away, but only smooth out the sharp edges. Even in my factory 308 barrel with 728rnds down the barrel, it still looks very ugly as to the reamer marks. However the marks don't have sharp edges as they did between the 1st shot fired and 100rnds. Then when the barrel is clean to bare metal the small little grooves between the reamer marks need to be filled in with fouling before accuracy comes back, and then around 150rnds the barrel is holding too much fouling and effects accuracy again. It doesn't sound like fun with all the cleaning, but I guess it has to be done and put up with, if shooting a factory barrel. If you can get the chance to view inside your bores with a good bore scope you will then see what I mean about how ugly they are. I could be very wrong about all of this! It's just what I have experienced, and what has taken place with my factory barrels. Again just my thoughts and no hard core docmented proof other than what I have seen with my bore scope and done as to cleaning my factory barrels. Hope this helps!!
Mark
I broke in my factory barrels, not by any set process. I let the barrel tell me what to do. I just started out with one shot clean rule untill copper fell off, and so on with 3 shots and 5 shots. I also kept up with what the throat and Crown looked like with a Hawkeye bore scope. Now copper never completly went away with a factory barrel it only held less, but still a lot of copper when compared to my Broughton 5c 6BR barrel. Now when I get to about 150rnds down the factory 308 barrel It gets a good cleaning. Because Accuracy starts to fall off (too much fouling). I do clean the barrel down to bare metal. After the barrel has been cleaned to bare metal the guns shoots like crap! Then after about 15rnds my accuracy comes back. If you haven't ever looked into a factory barrel with a Hawkeye bore scope? I can tell you it is a ugly sight!! Makes me wonder how any factory barrel will shoot as well as some of them do.
Ok, when I broke in my Broughton 5c barrel in 6br there were hardly any reamer marks in my throat. My smith done a good job chambering the barrel. The barrel broke in YES in less than 5 rounds. After the 3rd shot I seen no copper in the barrel or on my patches at all. So I shot about 25rnds in 5 shot sessions after that. The last 5 shots of the day I ran two wet patches of butches down the barrel while it was still warm. Came home and about two hrs later got the gun up in my vice and made 10 passes with a wet broze brush. Only down the barrel, not back accross the crown. After that It only took FOUR wet patches of Butches to get the barrel clean! There was only just some copper after 25rnds on the first patch and the rest was all powder residue and carbon.
I think with factory barrels the reamer marks from the throat to the crown never really go away, but only smooth out the sharp edges. Even in my factory 308 barrel with 728rnds down the barrel, it still looks very ugly as to the reamer marks. However the marks don't have sharp edges as they did between the 1st shot fired and 100rnds. Then when the barrel is clean to bare metal the small little grooves between the reamer marks need to be filled in with fouling before accuracy comes back, and then around 150rnds the barrel is holding too much fouling and effects accuracy again. It doesn't sound like fun with all the cleaning, but I guess it has to be done and put up with, if shooting a factory barrel. If you can get the chance to view inside your bores with a good bore scope you will then see what I mean about how ugly they are. I could be very wrong about all of this! It's just what I have experienced, and what has taken place with my factory barrels. Again just my thoughts and no hard core docmented proof other than what I have seen with my bore scope and done as to cleaning my factory barrels. Hope this helps!!
Mark
If you want a super easy method for both fireforming and breaking in a barrel follow Joe Krupa's method:
"When I get a new barrel, I break it in with 25 pieces of newly turned brass.
I clean the new barrel, and then shoot 10 pieces to both fireform and break in the barrel. Then I clean the barrel and shoot the remaining 15.
After that, I clean the barrel and start tuning it with the first ten. I am convinced that you break in a barrel by shooting it than by cleaning it."
"When I get a new barrel, I break it in with 25 pieces of newly turned brass.
I clean the new barrel, and then shoot 10 pieces to both fireform and break in the barrel. Then I clean the barrel and shoot the remaining 15.
After that, I clean the barrel and start tuning it with the first ten. I am convinced that you break in a barrel by shooting it than by cleaning it."
Thanks for your input folks. The term 'breakin' to me refers to the special effort made to get some of the new bore roughness 'worn' away and reduce fouling rate. Accelerated and thorough cleaning initially makes sense to me because new bores probably get fouled more quickly and heavily than a smoother bore would. This fouling would be protecting the surface under it from further wear and result in the roughest spots getting the least lapping. A good point was made that without a borescope to confirm that the cleaning is complete, it probably isn't and thus totally compromises the break-in procedure. Some factory barrels might be so rough and uneven that a good bit of fouling is desirable and a specific break-in procedure is pointless. It follows that custom barrels that are lapped by the supplier can't really be improved upon other than by regular use.
Deadly, the 6br got cleaned every 30-50 rounds after the initial 50 round break-in. Accuracy steadily went to h but I blamed it on the loads. After 250 rounds I was so frustrated that it got the heaviest cleaning with JB I could imagine and then some. Accuracy improved immediately but the bore fouls so bad that I start to feel rough spots in the bore after only 20 rounds. Copper fouling is visible in the muzzle. A borescope is on order so will have more to say on this eventually.
Deadly, the 6br got cleaned every 30-50 rounds after the initial 50 round break-in. Accuracy steadily went to h but I blamed it on the loads. After 250 rounds I was so frustrated that it got the heaviest cleaning with JB I could imagine and then some. Accuracy improved immediately but the bore fouls so bad that I start to feel rough spots in the bore after only 20 rounds. Copper fouling is visible in the muzzle. A borescope is on order so will have more to say on this eventually.
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