Geniuses at Hornady crack the code!

[davidjoe]

The extremes we now demand from the manufactures come with compromises. We want it all but at the outer edge of sanity it doesn't take much to drive us crazy.
Larger cases, longer bullets, faster and faster twist barrels. WHAT COULD GO WRONG

Yes, they ARE getting too darn big, Dave .

 

[danny]

I stoped reading when I saw 'outdoorlife'.for the last 10 years they have been nearly at the click bait level of informational articles.

Haven't they long been for "Zumbos" and Sportsmen"?

Danny

 

[Fuj]

I think we’ve reached maximum capabilities of a barrel with a brass case full of flammable powder squeezing a soft projectile down a rifled bore.

Time to reinvent the wheel if we want to go further…

Some time back, I read the accuracy testing of the current tank cannons
both rifled and smooth bore. The Abrams smooth bore consistently out
shot the rifled cannon at 2500 meters with it's designed sabot ammo.
What was even more interesting that it could hit the same size barn door
target at a much longer range then the current ELR shooters are using.
Major downside would be the cost of each round considering the Abrams
M829 is in excess of $10,000 with special variants tripling that. I could only
imagine !!.....Yeah, match's would get pricey and March would need to do a
Majesta in a 18-800 x ??.....LOL

Just thinkin' out loud again......

 

[wboggs]

The extremes we now demand from the manufactures come with compromises. We want it all but at the outer edge of sanity it doesn't take much to drive us crazy.
Larger cases, longer bullets, faster and faster twist barrels. WHAT COULD GO WRONG

I think you are the one who has cracked the code. What do you think is behind these trends?

 

[davidjoe]

… Berger started the current, long BC craze that we are in. As a young man/student, I honestly thought Sierra was tempting fate with a seemingly permanent advertising campaign that affirmed it as the winningest, but sometimes then stated the current count on records or championship wins, out of the total. That is basically like placing an open bounty on yourself, because you want to see who else thinks they are tough.

In my recollection, which granted may be vague, Berger earlier on, was not “always” this “small shooting” but was the high BC option, and over time they buckled down and refined QC to an unprecedented degree so that both tiny groups and reliability joined their signature high BC. As an aside, their jackets “defy” scrutiny. The copper doesn’t always look like it “wanted” to be squeezed that narrow up the ogive, you guys know what I’m saying here, it’s just best to ignore that because it truly means nothing, and damn do they flat work.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

… Berger started the current, long BC craze that we are in. As a young man/student, I honestly thought Sierra was tempting fate with a seemingly permanent advertising campaign that affirmed it as the winningest, but sometimes then stated the current count on records or championship wins, out of the total. That is basically like placing an open bounty on yourself, because you want to see who else thinks they are tough.

In my recollection, which granted may be vague, Berger earlier on, was not “always” this “small shooting” but was the high BC option, and over time they buckled down and refined QC to an unprecedented degree so that both tiny groups and reliability joined their signature high BC. As an aside, their jackets “defy” scrutiny. The copper doesn’t always look like it “wanted” to be squeezed that narrow up the ogive, you guys know what I’m saying here, it’s just best to ignore that because it truly means nothing, and damn do they flat work.

Not exactly. Walt Berger was winning all kinds of matches with his own bullets and people were demanding them. The 6.5-284 came into its hay day with Walts 140gr VLD and couldn’t be touched at 1K for groups or score. It wasn’t until the 6mm Dasher came around that groups and aggs really started shrinking at 1K. Then of course lol the other 6mm variants with some 6.5x47Ls pulling in some wins too. And of course ALL that was initially achieved with Berger bullets as well.

Now there’s a couple boutique shops like Vapor Trail and a couple others making 6mm bullets that seem to edge out Berger at 1K, but that’s because they are all hand drawn and they focus on much less bullet options. Berger has gotten so big, they are still really good, just not as consistent as they were originally, especially lot to lot.

Regardless of who’s winning now tho, they all use a hollow point design and J4 jackets. Sure ogives, cores, and boat tail designs will vary, but using a HP and J4 jackets are pretty much the only way a bullet can stay in the winners circle. So until something new comes along that can beat those two key items, there’s really no point in wasting time like Hornady does re-testing designs that have been proven time and time again to be inferior.

Sierra has a good design with their MatchKings, but they are missing the J4 jacket. So no matter how hard I try shooting identical loads side by side with MKs and VLDs or Hybrids, Berger always seems to give me an edge over Sierra

 

[FNSafari]

Not exactly. Walt Berger was winning all kinds of matches with his own bullets and people were demanding them. The 6.5-284 came into its hay day with Walts 140gr VLD and couldn’t be touched at 1K for groups or score. It wasn’t until the 6mm Dasher came around that groups and aggs really started shrinking at 1K. Then of course lol the other 6mm variants with some 6.5x47Ls pulling in some wins too. And of course ALL that was initially achieved with Berger bullets as well.

Now there’s a couple boutique shops like Vapor Trail and a couple others making 6mm bullets that seem to edge out Berger at 1K, but that’s because they are all hand drawn and they focus on much less bullet options. Berger has gotten so big, they are still really good, just not as consistent as they were originally, especially lot to lot.

Regardless of who’s winning now tho, they all use a hollow point design and J4 jackets. Sure ogives, cores, and boat tail designs will vary, but using a HP and J4 jackets are pretty much the only way a bullet can stay in the winners circle. So until something new comes along that can beat those two key items, there’s really no point in wasting time like Hornady does re-testing designs that have been proven time and time again to be inferior.

Sierra has a good design with their MatchKings, but they are missing the J4 jacket. So no matter how hard I try shooting identical loads side by side with MKs and VLDs or Hybrids, Berger always seems to give me an edge over Sierra

Sierra makes jackets. If their sales are where they want them to be they will continue to make jackets as they do with metal sheeting to their specs. If J4 jackets make better bullets its up to Sierra to decide if they should upgrade their specs and processes.

 

[Fuj]

Sierra makes jackets....(snip)... If J4 jackets make better bullets its up to Sierra to decide if they should upgrade their specs and processes.

The US Army has some say in this also, and their specs. Not all but most
of what the AMU shoots is primarily Sierra. I believe the larger calibers like
the .338's have contracts with Berger also.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

They have achieved the main goal. We are talking about them.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Sierra makes jackets. If their sales are where they want them to be they will continue to make jackets as they do with metal sheeting to their specs. If J4 jackets make better bullets its up to Sierra to decide if they should upgrade their specs and processes.

Yeah Sierra has always made their own jackets. They just aren’t as good as the J4. Not sure if the J4 has an active patent on it? Or if cost for other manufacturers to start using them is the issue…?

But I suppose if a pig is happy in his own pile of siht, then maybe it’s not enough reason to change anything.

 

[DeerHunter82]

I’ve always used Sierra Pro Hunter for my hunting rounds. Love em. Never thought about using Sierra for benchrest. Come to find out, I read they make 115 DTAC which I use regularly in my 6XC. Found that interesting.

 

[BoydAllen]

All hornday is doing in that article is finally realizing how flat and hollow point tips reduce atmospheric effects on the bullet as I described earlier. Next they’ll spend a few more years testing different hollow point meplats and realize that’s even better!

Then after 10 years of rigorous research and development with Doppler radar and whatever other gadgets, they end up with a hollow point design. Then one of them just might be smart enough to finally realize old Walt Berger had it figured out from the start and they could have just began testing there

Wait til they start shooting flat base bullets for short range, Hornady will be blown away by the results! Then realize again, that’s what everyone has already been doing for ages…Lol

Although virtually all of my short range competition was done with flat base bullets, I think that if you look around today, at what successful shooters are using, you will see a lot of boat tails.