Frustrated with my brass

[retired]

harrell's precision is just one place, there are others.
call and talk to them

540-380-2683

Who did you say makes a good die? Thanks

 

[fguffey]

Who did you say makes a good die? Thanks

I did not say, I do not have a favorite die maker. Instead I have spent a lot of time learning how to use the ones I have. There was a smith that made dies for ever rifle he built, he was a friend of Ackley; problem, can't talk about him and or the dies he made because so many dedicated owners of custom dies do not believe 'it' can be done. I was asked to modify a set he made for a friend, I turned down the opportunity because I did not have the equipment to hold the tolerance.

F. Guffey

 

[Texas10]

When I spun a new barrel on my 22-250, and bought new, better dies, I immediately had a problem with the die not setting the shoulder back enough on my once shot brass, even when the shell holder made hard contact with the bottom of the die. So I ground a bit off the die, and that helped but I soon realized that the problem really was the headspacing. So I screwed the barrel in a few thousandths more and, bingo!, problem solved.

These days I prefer to set my barrels to minimum headspace so that the initial fire forming on new brass is less of a strain on the brass. In fact, I will use a new piece of the brass from the batch I intend to use as a headspace gage to set the barrel into the action. YUMMV

 

[Texas10]

No more than three firings. Have body die set to Redding instructions. Using the Hornady gauge the brass is coming out about .003-.004 over Lapua unfired brass.I'm headed out now to try again,I will try and keep good notes.

Just re-read this, so question comes to mind. How are you annealing your brass and how often? After 3 cycles, it's getting pretty hard.

 

[muleman69]

Just re-read this, so question comes to mind. How are you annealing your brass and how often? After 3 cycles, it's getting pretty hard.

Have not annealed yet. New brass closes just as hard.

 

[Texas10]

One last suggestion. Take a new piece of brass and drill and tap the flash hole 6/32, screw it onto a section of 3 piece cleaning rod and see if it will slide into the chamber with no interference or tendency to stick upon retraction. If there is any tendency to stick or jamb going in, the chamber will need some looking into, maybe a new ream job.

If it goes in cleanly, I suspect a bolt timing issue, or short chamber, or both.

A good quality head space gage would narrow the field a bit. Probably could find someone here who'd lend you one for the check. I don't have one or it'd already be on it's way.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The case has resistance to sizing, some cases have more resistance to sizing than other cases. I do not secure the lock ring to the die, I secure the die to the press with the lock ring. I do not insist on full length sizing ever time I size the case; I do not want to oversize the case, over sizing the case allows for the case to travel when fired; I am the fan of cutting down on all that case travel.





No, I believe you should learn to determine if the die, press and shell holder returned the case to minimum length/size. If the press can not overcome the cases ability to resist sizing the case can not be full length sized. I have no problem with measuring the gap between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder before lowering the ram after sizing, if the reloader adjusted the die down to the shell holder with an additional 1/4 turn (.017") there should not be a gap between the die and shell holder when the ram is raised. There are time it is necessary to add an additional 1/4 turn meaning the die is lowered an additional .017"; 1/2 turn equals .034".


If I needed to use a small base die I would start by raising the case head off the deck of the shell holder with a feeler gage. Most reloaders reach for the grinder and start grinding the top of the shell holder, not necessary if they can operate a feeler gage. The feeler gage reduces the deck height of the shell holder. Reducing the deck height increases the presses' ability to over come the cases ability to resist sizing.


And then there is that part about returning the rifle to the smith: I am the fan of transfers and standards. If the smith has a standard like a head space gage and if the smith has the ability to verify the gage he will tell you he has done all he can do. I have new, over the counter, never fired factory loaded ammo; I can verify the ammo is full length sized in length and diameter. if my factory loaded ammo will not chamber there is something wrong with the chamber because full length sized cases are smaller in length and diameter than a go-gage chamber.


I do not care if the chamber is long or short, I size cases for short chambers, I size cases for long chambers. Again: I have one chamber that is .016" longer than a minimum length/full length case; and I have forums full of reloaders that claim I am going to have case head separation because I have too much head space. I can not convince them the shoulder on my long chambered rifle does not move when fired.


And I use the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head to off set the length of the chamber,


F. Guffey

In other words he should be bumping the shoulder back to increase headspace?

 

[dkhunt14]

The small base die, that is the problem solver, my small base dies will not size the base of my cases because of the deck height of the shell holder. My shell holders have a deck height of .125 plus there is a radius. I always suggest the reloader measure before and again after, measure what with what?

F. Guffey

First off, x amount of case isn't in the chamber. The .200 line is where it's needs sized. I have dies and can size all the way to the extractor grooove. That is measured with a Mitutoyo digital Mike before and after sizing. Matt

 

[muleman69]

One last suggestion. Take a new piece of brass and drill and tap the flash hole 6/32, screw it onto a section of 3 piece cleaning rod and see if it will slide into the chamber with no interference or tendency to stick upon retraction. If there is any tendency to stick or jamb going in, the chamber will need some looking into, maybe a new ream job.

If it goes in cleanly, I suspect a bolt timing issue, or short chamber, or both.

A good quality head space gage would narrow the field a bit. Probably could find someone here who'd lend you one for the check. I don't have one or it'd already be on it's way.

I will try this next. TKS

 

[muleman69]

First off, x amount of case isn't in the chamber. The .200 line is where it's needs sized. I have dies and can size all the way to the extractor grooove. That is measured with a Mitutoyo digital Mike before and after sizing. Matt

I may have to go with dies like yours as by the time I get it sized to extractor grove I have set my head space back way to far. I have found that if it is not sized clear to the grove it will not close with out scrubbing on last .070 of chamber.

 

[fguffey]

I may have to go with dies like yours as by the time I get it sized to extractor grove I have set my head space back way to far.

I have no fewer than 150 shell holders, I do not have a shell holder that will allow a case to be sized to the case extractor groove. Again, my shell holders have a deck height of .125". I have a few shell holders that are mistakes, all of them were made before 1960.

My RCBS shell holders allow me to raise the case .012" off of the deck of the shell holder when using feeler gages. What does that mean? I can shorten a case from the shoulder to the case head .012" with a feeler gage and that is the same thing as increasing the presses' ability to over come the cases ability to resist sizing.

F. Guffey

 

[dmoran]

I have no fewer than 150 shell holders, I do not have a shell holder that will allow a case to be sized to the case extractor groove. Again, my shell holders have a deck height of .125". I have a few shell holders that are mistakes, all of them were made before 1960.

My RCBS shell holders allow me to raise the case .012" off of the deck of the shell holder when using feeler gages. What does that mean? I can shorten a case from the shoulder to the case head .012" with a feeler gage and that is the same thing as increasing the presses' ability to over come the cases ability to resist sizing.

F. Guffey

Besides how cumbersome inserting and repeatedly re-inserting feeler gauges can be, feeler gauges also wear and get damaged easily, particularly ones that are less then .005". It also takes a pretty sloppy shell holder to even get a .008" feeler under a case effortlessly. All these things is why the use of feeler gauges is a temporary fix or assessment, and not a solution. A good solution is surfaced shell holders.

Myself use surface ground shell holders (ground to .115" deck height) so that I never have to worry about getting enough case into the dies (also to assure a "square and truly flat" shell holder, which some are not). I also dedicate shell holders to die sets, since there can often be indifference between shell holder heights. And I use die shims to adjust my dies.
Donovan

 

[Steve Ladino]

Have a 6br that has been shot probably 40 times with all reloads. Made some up and went to range and noticed bolt tough to close and a bit tight on opening. Went home and checked oal,case length,head space and all seemed fine. Using lapua brass ,Redding dies. Resized some brass with body die and FL ,checked length and head space, seated bullets under book 0al and it is still snug fit. One thing I did notice is when using body die my head space reading can be .001-.0015 different, can't figure that out? Please help if you can thanks

Good axial alignment ?

 

[fguffey]

f

Have a 6br that has been shot probably 40 times with all reloads.

The OP shot the rifle close to 40 times with no problem closing the bolt or opening the bolt and the he sizes his cases and loads them. That is when the OP started having problems, I wish he had saved a few of the original, factory, over the counter new ammo. Had he saved a few rounds he would have something to compare his reloaded ammo with.

F. Guffey