Free recoil

[AtticusThraxx]

Hey everyone. I'm somewhat new to benchrest shooting, well new to being serious about it. I was reading on the .308 page and saw a couple of terms I'm not familiar with. One is "free recoil". They also used the term "hard hold". If anyone could shed some light on these two I would appreciate it.
I have some other questions specific to reloading but I'll go over there and ask. Thanks.

 

[Forum Boss]

Hard hold--

Gripping the wrist/pistol grip area of the stock firmly. Can be combined with gripping the fore-end,with or without sling). Can be used with/without shoulder contact and cheek pressure on the comb. The idea is for the shooter to actively hold the gun steady and steer it on target.

Free Recoil--

True free recoil means touching nothing on the gun but the trigger, or perhaps the back of the trigger guard,with thumb) and trigger,with index finger). You'll need a VERY solid, steady rest set-up to get this to work right. But the theory is the gun can recoil straight back with no up/down/left/right deflection caused by shooter interference. It works with Benchrest guns. There are also many versions of modified free recoil. Many guys like to just have a little downward pressure on the stock applied with the thumb. Some free-recoilers squeeze the "bunny ears" of their rear bags. However, in pure form free recoil means shooting the gun with trigger contact and nothing else, using a front rest and heavy sandbag.

A free-recoiler will, often, use his shoulder to catch the rifle after it's moved a couple of inches. That's part of the technique which helps speed up the process of getting back on target for the next shot. But the general idea is still that the bullet leaves the barrel before the butt contacts your shoulder.

 

[AtticusThraxx]

Thanks. Guess it would be smart to get the basics down prior to doing anything fancy.

 

[StephenPerry]

Att
If you are asking for BR shooting only let me help you. Free recoil is what most shooters strive for. Several problems make FR hard to handle. If you are shooting at a Range that has close to level on slightly down fill no problem. I would not recommend a couple inches between shoulder and stock. Your gun could drop off your front rest or worst yet could beat the shit out of you. I try to use 1 in or less. This helps me to control the recoil. Even a 10 1/2# PPC after a days shooting can ring your bell not to think what a 1000 yd gun can do. Stay close control the gun for more consistent shooting.
There are times more at 200/300 that holding the gun can be more desirable than the shoot and fly technique. The hold I like at 110 when I shoot Free recoil is thumb lightly on the stock and squeeze the trigger. The thumb stabilizes the stock. They all rock on the rest. Try some of this and come back and comment.
Stephen Perry

 

[AtticusThraxx]

Well tell me what I'm doing wrong please. I shoot a custom .308. Heavy bugger, just over 15lbs. On a bipod from a wooden bench. I shoot right-handed with butt firm against my shoulder. My left arm comes underneath stock and grips my right elbow where it touches bench. With stock resting on left wrist. Now the weapon jumps a bit with 168gr Federal GMM, and it does take a sec to re-aquire the target through the scope. But the Shilen Bull barrel holds it down ok. The groups are tight at 100 yds but I have to think there's some room for improvement. Should I lose the bipod and shoot from bags and try the Free Recoil? Or leave well enough alone and concentrate on breathing and trigger squeeze.

 

[StephenPerry]

Att
Get rid of the tripod for bench use. Either pile up sand bags or look for a good used rest. Not the orange Hoppes model.
Keep your hands off the forend. Control your bag bag with your hand not used for pulling the trigger. Don't steer the rear bag just stablize it. Become a 2 handed shooter but not a dumb one.
Stephen Perry

 

[AtticusThraxx]

Ok Stephen I'll give it a shot. I have an orange Hoppes, use it for M52 and 513T never any problem. Why don't you like it?

 

[StephenPerry]

Att
I've said all I can say except the orange Hoppe is fine for 22 rimfire.
Stephen Perry

 

[StephenPerry]

Att
I have re-read some of your stuff. For a .308 I would give a slight push into the butt stock with shoulder contact. Free recoil might get you hurt with your .308 unless you have good technique. Bag technique is what it is all about in bench shooting. Get a back bag, tall bunny ears would work fine for you.
Stephen Perry

 

[AtticusThraxx]

Thanks Stephen, shopping around to pick one up now. Will let ya know how things work out. Again thanks for your advice.

 

[Forum Boss]

Atticus,

Different calibers, gun weights, and stock configurations dictate different shooting styles. Unless you have a wide, flat forend and a buttstock with limited drop, free-recoiling is difficult even with the best rests. Most guys would find it hard to free recoil a .308 with a hunter or tactical style fore-end. Very good groups are possible with a hard hold and bipod, even from the bench. I suggest you read this article by Froggy. Many readers have remarked this helped with their accuracy when shooting a .308 off bipod.

http://www.6mmbr.com/TacticalFroggyA1.html

Sample:
"Q: Do you sometimes use the free-recoil method? Can it ever work with a bipod?

Free recoil will not produce the desired result with a .308. I tried that more than a couple of times. No dice. My technique works for me. But I won't argue with the way Tony Boyer shoots a 6PPC.

And don't even think of shooting free recoil off a bipod. It just doesn't work because you don't want those legs bouncing backwards out of control.

When shooting with a bipod it is essential that the bipod be adjusted properly for elevation and cant. The bipod must be of good quality. I like Harris swivel bipods with notched legs. When the bipod is set up properly, and if you push slightly forward with the rifle to firm up the 'pod's legs, excellent results can be realized with lots of practice."

 

[tightneck]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is trigger pull weight. You simply cannot shoot free recoil unless you have an extremely light trigger. Benchrest rifles have triggers in the 1.5-3.0 oz range. I feel the best accuracy can be had with a front rest and rear bag, but with a rounded forend the rifle will torque too much with free recoil. You need to practice with all kinds of different holding pressures to find what will suit you and your rifle. The Hoppes rest is far too light and unstable to make a good rest for serious bench work. You want something as solid as you can get so there is no chance your rest will move in any way during recoil.