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Free All as Bore Cleaner?

I've used Kroil which is basically the same as FreeAll, a penetrating oil which helps loosen the carbon and copper. It's an "accelerator" as marketing calls it nowadays. It accelerates bore cleaning, loosening and removing rusted bolts, etc. Depending on your cleaning regimen needed you still need to go after the carbon and copper.
 
I have never used Free-All, but have used most of the other products mentioned in previous posts, Sweet's, Bore Tec, Hoppes , Kroil, Ed's Red, Tipton etc. I found all did a decent job of cleaning powder, and copper from the barrel. But for that hard carbon in the throat and between the lands only an abrasive such as JB, Iosso, Fritz (green stuff) used with a brush and lots of elbow grease was needed. JME
 
In my hands, Kroil does not work like Free All with respect to removing carbon, and its formula is chemically different than Free All. I've used Kroil as part of my cleaning regimen for many years, and continue to do so. I love Kroil. But treating the bore with patches of Kroil followed by a bronze brush after using C4 carbon remover and Cu+2 copper remover only lifts out a very small amount of carbon on patches. Treatment of the bore with Free All and a bronze brush after using Kroil can still get out a bunch of carbon (image below). IMO - they are not even close to the same.
View attachment 1537909

In my hands, Kroil does not work like Free All with respect to removing carbon, and its formula is chemically different than Free All. I've used Kroil as part of my cleaning regimen for many years, and continue to do so. I love Kroil. But treating the bore with patches of Kroil followed by a bronze brush after using C4 carbon remover and Cu+2 copper remover only lifts out a very small amount of carbon on patches. Treatment of the bore with Free All and a bronze brush after using Kroil can still get out a bunch of carbon (image below). IMO - they are not even close to the same.
View attachment 1537909
Of course they are of different compounds. Free All is a Ketone and Kroil is a Naphtheic oil. I was merely stating they are both marketed as penetrating oils. You would still need to use a carbon remover and a copper remover for a thorough cleaning. I bore scope my cleaning job. I don't go by what a patch looks like.
 
In my hands, Kroil does not work like Free All with respect to removing carbon, and its formula is chemically different than Free All. I've used Kroil as part of my cleaning regimen for many years, and continue to do so. I love Kroil. But treating the bore with patches of Kroil followed by a bronze brush after using C4 carbon remover and Cu+2 copper remover only lifts out a very small amount of carbon on patches. Treatment of the bore with Free All and a bronze brush after using Kroil can still get out a bunch of carbon (image below). IMO - they are not even close to the same. Also IMO, the best way to prevent buildup of the hard, baked-in, volcanic glass carbon, is to prevent it from ever accumulating in the throat in the first place. I am finding that regular treatment with Free all at the end of the cleaning regimen is helping to accomplish that.
View attachment 1537909
Try rubbing a bronze brush on the outside of a clean stainless steel barrel with, say, C4. Then wipe with a clean patch. The patch will be dark grey/black.
 
A couple of things. First of all, if you look at the MSDS for Free All and research all of the ingredients, one of the major components is a SOLVENT for nitrocellulose, which is the main component of smokeless powder. Granted we are talking about removing a combustion product of nitrocellulose, but I think that the ingredient may have some effect on a small fraction of what we are trying to remove, and that that is significant. Another thing, I would guess that no one who does well in competition, or even makes a decent showing, has the hard carbon that I was helping guys with, so what we did was essentially for another situation than most who post here have dealt with, for the same reason that I have not either, we never let things get that far out of hand. Finally, method. A few years back a friend got to know Walt Berger and hit it off with him well enough that Walt shared what his source was for moly powder, how he coated bullets and how he cleaned. Remembering that back when Berger Bullets sold coated bullets, that the instructions, meant for after extended shooting, included using JB, I was curious about how Walt was cleaning many years later, since he was still shooting moly coated bullets even though the company had long since stopped offering them that way. The point that I am leading up to is about bronze wool, which is similar to steel wool, only softer. He would wrap it around his bronze brush and scrub with it using solvent in the barrel and on the bronze wool and brush combination. Since I have always known that Walt was a very sharp person, even in his old age, I just had to try this, so I bought some off of Amazon, wrapped a worn brush to a snug to tight fit and gave it a try. It worked well, but I soon learned not to let the combination go out of the muzzle because it was a bit challenging to put back in. Later when I was helping fellows with extreme cases of hard carbon, we modified the method to make it easier to short stroke in the barrel, because we observed that the length that the hard carbon extended down the bore, shortened as we removed it, scrubbing by scrubbing. This allowed the shooter to work in the area where the remaining hard carbon was. While some good work can be done with a tight bronze brush, I cannot reverse one that is not worn out, mid bore. For the less experience, if you can reverse a bronze brush in the barrel, it is worn out. Toss it, or use it to brush the insides of case necks, which is what I do.
 
I use free all. I shoot a heavy dose in, take the bronze brush, in one hit. And for every stroke of the brush, I shoot free all down the bore. Till no more black comes out. It stops coming out black ten to 15 strokes. I use heavy amounts spraying down the bbl with a extended spray nozel. Then spray brake cleaner to get the last bit out, then dry patch, 3 to 4 times. That normally gets a clean patch out the end of barrel.
 
Hmm. I rerun my test.
Here's the redone test
Test 1: New stainless steel barrel, never fired. Ran solvent on a patch through it and then a couple dry patches. Then, brushed with a bronze brush with FA on the brush 10 times. Pushed 1 dry patch through it => round patch in pic below.
Test 2: Used alcohol to clean off the outside of same barrel. Applied FA to bronze brush. Rubbed the brush across the surface of the barrel 10 times => square patch.

Net: I stand by my statement that FA on a bronze brush pushed through a clean stainless steel barrel will always produce a black patch.
 

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Now fire some rounds through that barrel, then clean per your normal procedure. Afterward, try the treatment again with Free All and the bronze brush. Then you'll understand.
How would that change anything? If a never fired barrel shows black, the actual false positive is obviously a white patch from a barrel that has been used.
 
How would that change anything? If a never fired barrel shows black, the actual false positive is obviously a white patch from a barrel that has been used.
May or not be relevant but a new bbl is not clean and may well have contaminants left from the mfg process that will turn a patch blackish. In some, even copper can come from a new bbl as it was used as a lube to pull/push the rifling button through it. Just sayin but I do guess it's fair to say there is no hard carbon in a new bbl. I'm just not sure that getting some black out of a new bbl means a lot, either way. The steel itself may leach some color to some solvents. Rub on a piece of bare aluminum and your fingers will get black, just as an example. Not disagreeing but not really agreeing either. Just might be other causes is all. In fact, carbon is in many/most alloys, fwiw. If FA has an ingredient that is intended for carbon, it's logical that it would show some on a patch from it..to some degree. Similarly, I think it's BoreTech Eliminator that I've rubbed on the OUTSIDE of a ss bbl and the patch turned a bit blue.
 
I recently used it also with a bronze brush and cloth wrapped around the brush. Soaked it well and it was amazing. I had an area that nothing I used could get rid of it. Right at the throat and Lands about 1-2 inches. The area was dark almost looked like a metal stain that started right after I 1st shot the barrel. It was not there when I got my barrel. And after 200 rounds it was still there. So I used the free all with the brush and cloth and it was history looks better than when the barrel was new.
 

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