Francis Scott Key Bridge, Baltimore Md.

[CJ6]

So with "presumed " electrical issues, how long should it take for the computers to reset to be able to get back on line? I know our work computers took several minutes to reboot when there was a spike or surge. Also the picture that Jackie posted about the pylons (excellent), they do have them in place (just not as large and spaced further apart).

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

When electrical outages happen on the crab boats( deadliest catch) the captain's are PANICKED.

 

[joshb]

So with "presumed " electrical issues, how long should it take for the computers to reset to be able to get back on line? I know our work computers took several minutes to reboot when there was a spike or surge. Also the picture that Jackie posted about the pylons (excellent), they do have them in place (just not as large and spaced further apart).

I think those are for a power line.

 

[Bill Clifton]

So, with this contaminated fuel theory, how long would it take to clear contaminated fuel? 5 seconds?
Sounds like these are NASCAR grade mechanics. C'mon.... burnt fuel looked pretty black once the coal was poured.

I take it you have no experience with algae contaminated diesel, not saying that's what happened but was my first thought when they mentioned contaminated fuel. Believe me when I say it's a nasty mess when that stuff grows in a tank.

 

[rockhound78]

TV reported that while docked, engine maintenance had been performed. No specifics though

 

[6BRA]

If it was a fuel issue, how did they resolve in 5 to 10 seconds? Since you think it was a fuel issue. Contaminated fuel doesn't get resolved that quickly. Help me out here...

 

[DShortt]

Diesel fuel can last months and months without going bad. I’d be more inclined to believe water in the fuel somehow, although even diesel trucks have a separate diesel/water separator to remove the residual water from the fuel; but with extreme water in the fuel; the filter is saturated with water in mere minutes and any subsequent water will go directly to the fuel rail. Water to the fuel rail of a diesel engine is VERY bad and will result in seized engine quite quickly. And yes, I’m speaking from experience as I been a fuel systems engineer for 28 years.
Dave

Water in diesel is typically considered contaminated fuel. I work for a class 1 railroad. Happens all the time.

 

[DShortt]

So with "presumed " electrical issues, how long should it take for the computers to reset to be able to get back on line? I know our work computers took several minutes to reboot when there was a spike or surge. Also the picture that Jackie posted about the pylons (excellent), they do have them in place (just not as large and spaced further apart).

Takes a locomotive about 10 minutes. Trouble to impact happened in about 5.

 

[CJ6]

I think those are for a power line.

I didn't see any towers on them.

 

[DShortt]

If it was a fuel issue, how did they resolve in 5 to 10 seconds? Since you think it was a fuel issue. Contaminated fuel doesn't get resolved that quickly. Help me out here...

No simple solution. Typically involves draining the fuel tank and replacing filters on a locomotive with a 4,500 gallon capacity. I'm sure the capacity of a ship like that is significantly higher.

 

[DShortt]

It wasn't fuel related. I'm not an engineer...but it would never have fired up again if it was a fuel issue. Not in 5 to 10 seconds.

It didn't fire up again. Backup generator probably started and that was more than 10 seconds later.

 

[DShortt]

Not to mention the design is poor at best and should have more protection for the support islands and deflection pylons in front of both the entrance and exit of the port. I thoroughly believe this is a horrible accident, but I’m certainly open to reviewing all new evidence. To this point, I’ve seen nothing to make me believe foul play was involved in any way.

This sort of thing is why railroads were forced to develop and implement Positive Train Control and it's not fool-proof either. And trains have brakes unlike ships.

 

[jackieschmidt]

You've got your head on straight, Dave, and know how to use it.

Consider that AP reports cargo vessels and cruise ships visit the port about 1,800 times per year. That's one ingress and one egress each visit, so ~3600 transits under that bridge annually. The bridge opened in 1977, or 47 years ago. A rough calculation says that's ~170,000 transits. As soon as the first one strikes the bridge there's "something's just not right about it".
-

Complacency. It can rear its ugly head at any moment. Those port pilots make that same trip countless times through the year with no incidence. Until……..
Something goes terribly wrong.

”We have one of the safest ports in the Country………except for that time the ship destroyed the bridge”.

Many safety protocols are based on “What ifs”. As in, “What if the bridge is hit by a hurricane”. “What if we have a multi car pileup on the deck”. These are legitimate questions.
But in my opinion, after seeing the layout of the harbor, nobody asked….”what if a fully loaded 80,000 ton ship hits one of the abutments”? That question has now been answered.

A member of the NTSB is quoted as saying……”The bridge had no redundancy”. Meaning that if any member of the structure fails, it could case the entire structure to collapse.
This is true of any truss bridge. Suspension and cable stay bridges tend to have redundancy in that if a single cable failed, the others can still hold the load.

But this is a moot point in this case, as what was hit was a main support abutment. If you take that out of any bridge, you will likely have a catastrophic failure.

 

[joshb]

I didn't see any towers on them.

Yup. Zoom in . You can see the towers and lines. Here’s a different angle of the scene:

 

[ebb]

This could be as simple as a loose wire or a faulty breaker, or not. I used to live by the building codes nothing changes in the building code till someone dies or comes way too close to dyeing.

 

[CJ6]

Yup. Zoom in . You can see the towers and lines. Here’s a different angle of the scene:
View attachment 1540991

Looking to the left in the picture from you'll see the small round pylon of 2. In an overhead there's 2 sets of smaller pylons on each side and both front and back of the bridge.

 

[Dave M.]

I don't have a lawn, I have huge fields, several of them. Hey, I'm just throwing out this stuff with some humor. Could have been an accident.

I do hold my a-hole neighbor accountable for any dandelions that pop up on my lawn. lol

 

[Dave M.]

Water in diesel is typically considered contaminated fuel. I work for a class 1 railroad. Happens all the time.

Duh…I never said anything different. As a fuels systems engineer, I’m fairly familiar with contaminated fuel.

 

[6BRA]

It didn't fire up again. Backup generator probably started and that was more than 10 seconds later.

Are you telling me that cloud of black smoke and the rearward yaw was from a generator? There is no way I would believe that. Watch the video again, 1st page of this thread. It would take some serious power to do that.

It didn't fire up again. Backup generator probably started and that was more than 10 seconds later.

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[Old Navy]

Diesel fuel can last months and months without going bad. I’d be more inclined to believe water in the fuel somehow, although even diesel trucks have a separate diesel/water separator to remove the residual water from the fuel; but with extreme water in the fuel; the filter is saturated with water in mere minutes and any subsequent water will go directly to the fuel rail. Water to the fuel rail of a diesel engine is VERY bad and will result in seized engine quite quickly. And yes, I’m speaking from experience as I been a fuel systems engineer for 28 years.
Dave

Then you know that water goes to the bottom of the tank and when a tank is drained almost empty sea water is pumped in for ballast. At least that is the way it was in the old navy.