fouling shots

[jaybray]

Hello, got a 6br with an 8 twist krieger barrel, 107 match kings, with varget. Question is does anyone else have a match grade barrel that takes 20 or so shots before it settles in? This one will not shoot until 20 to 25 shots have been through it. Is there any way to pre foul the bore instead of shooting?

 

[cocopuff]

don't clean it again until you notice accuracy going south or whereever.I seldom clean my barrel also a 6br.But mine will not shoot 107 gr worth a damn..
Forgot to mention,I did have a savage 30-06 once that was like that.Clean it and then it had to have 20 or 30 shots to make it good again...I beleive it was due to a rough barrel to start with..

 

[jaybray]

Since I rarely shoot more than 20 or so rounds at a range session could I do harm to the barrel by not cleaning it and storing it for a while? a few month's?

 

[fdshuster]

Jay: As strange as it sounds, you may be getting it "too" clean. If I use JB bore paste in my custom barrels and take it down to bare metal (as verified with my Hawkeye), they will all require 5 to 10 shots before they start shooting again.

Try just giving them a minimal cleaning to remove the powder fouling. Leave a little copper & carbon & give it another try. Same for short-term storage: just a minimal cleaning.

For long term storage, like over the Winter here in Pa., from November to March, I do take them down to bare metal, with notes added as a reminder in the Spring that they will need fouling before using in a match.

 

[jaybray]

Due to my inexperience, and since I only fire around 25 rounds or so at a time, I couldn't figure out why my groups were always better with the last few groups I shot before I packed up and left so i wasted a lot of barrel life by cleaning so soon. I think ill take the advice and just shoot till accuracy wears off. One more thing, could a load worked up in summer temps of say 70 degrees need to be re worked when the temperature falls to around 0 degrees or so?

 

[fdshuster]

Depends on the powder you are using. Some are more temperature sensitive than others.

 

[RDavies]

Some of my best barrels did take up to 8-9 shots through them before they started shooting well. My newest Dasher takes 8 full power shots.
To get the carbon/powder fouling built up a bit earlier, I run my fouling shots about 3 grains lower. These lower loads are not accurate, but they get the barrel shooting after around 4-5 shots, with a bit less pressure, throat erosion etc. I found I still have to fire one full power round before moving to the group, or the first full power load will still be around 20-30 fps lower than the following shots.
I have found that my barrels which took lots of shots to get shooting, kept shooting for a long time before cleaning was needed, while if a barrel started shooting well soon after cleaning, it was likely to need cleaning more often.

 

[dkhunt14]

70 degrees of temp. change is a lot. Unless your in the middle of a big node and have very forgiving powder you will probably have to change the load some. Most of my barrels are pretty well fouled by the second shot. Sometimes if you flitz them hard they take a few more to settle in. I almost never shoot more then 1 match without cleaning 7 sighters and 10 records. If i shoot the shootoff i use another gun. Matt

 

[RDavies]

As for temperature stability. In my Dashers and BRs I usually run H4895 and Varget, which most people say are stable, but I still have my regular load for 70% of my shooting in 20-30C, but in winters, I increase my loads around .1 gns or down .2gns if it is close to freezing. If it is a particularly hot summer day, I drop my regular loads around.1gn.
In my barrels which I am using more temperature sensitive powders such as VV N550, I drop or raise my loads round double this amount to keep the same speed/tune.

 

[cocopuff]

Due to my inexperience, and since I only fire around 25 rounds or so at a time, I couldn't figure out why my groups were always better with the last few groups I shot before I packed up and left so i wasted a lot of barrel life by cleaning so soon. I think ill take the advice and just shoot till accuracy wears off. One more thing, could a load worked up in summer temps of say 70 degrees need to be re worked when the temperature falls to around 0 degrees or so?

thats the same with me..I seldom shoot more than 20 rounds.Letting it cool down good after the first 10 shots..I shoot 10 for score and then another 10 after the cool down..I shoot the same load year round no matter what the temp is.Only in the summer I make sure to keep the ammo in the shade if possible..I have noticed some very irretic pressure changes with sun baked ammo...But I do not notice it in colder temps.. ;D

 

[jaybray]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm using varget and what is happening is at 200 yards ill put 3 in around a quarter inch cluster and the other 2 almost in the same hole but low to the right. i'll mess around with powder charge and see. Today was -25 so probably part of the problem.

 

[RDavies]

I would be very surprised if your load was still in tune at -25. Not only would your load be quite a bit slower when dropping from +70 down to -25 degrees, but your barrel dimensions would be different as well.

 

[jaybray]

That's right the dimensions would be smaller. Probably best to wait for a warm spell.

 

[RDavies]

May as well bump loads up a bit and see what it likes in the cool weather. Let us know what changes it needed to go from +70 degrees to -25.

 

[jaybray]

sounds good

 

[mikecr]

What takes a gun so long to settle in fouling is the petroleum products left in your bore from cleaning. These take a bit to burn out before good fouling takes hold.
But you can keep a bore clean and dry prefoul to solve problems mentioned.
I was taught to put a gun away cleaner than removed, and I always have.

I found perfect prefouling in WS2(tungsten Disulphide), dry burnished into a clean dry bore. Been doing it for 30+yrs.
I clean a bore to metal after every use, followed by a wash with any of the best alcohol I can get my hands on. Once dry, I pull a bore mop that is stored in a tube with WS2 powder & BBs, and dry burnish the powder in with a few full strokes. I run one dry patch through to remove any dusting, and put the gun back in the safe.
When I take that gun to the range, or huinting, the first shot is as good as all others to follow.

Oh,, don't ever use Flitz in a good bore. You will degrade the lapped finish and increase copper fouling.

 

[dkhunt14]

Most of the top 1000 yard benchrest shooters use Flitz. Usually just real hard in the first 6 inches to get rid of carbon. I use Iosso because I think it works better on carbon. When temps drop my barrels foul more and don't seem to shoot as small of groups. Most of the best groups shot at 1000 yard BR are shot in the warmer months. When my barrel is clean and dry and I am ready to shoot; I put 3 drops of Marvel mystery oil on the center of a patch and push through the bore. I make sure my chamber is dry and my bore guide dry and use guide to keep out of chamber. My first shot impact at 1000 yards is way closer then if I don't do it. Plus it seems to help with cleaning. Matt

 

[mikecr]

Most of the top 1000 yard benchrest shooters use Flitz.

I seriously doubt this, and any who do are making a bad mistake.
IOSSO, and JB cleaning compound(NOT bore bright) are different than Flitz.

We do not want to polish the bore. We want to get the carbon out while leaving the proper lapped finish(for reduced copper).

 

[dkhunt14]

Mark King, John Buhay and a lot of Williamsport shooters use Flitz. Mark uses it about every time he shoots. I know I watched him do it many times. He has had Dashers with 2000 rounds through and it never hurt them. He is also one of the top 1000 yard shooters and gunsmith. His rifles have broken many of the world records in 1000 BR.

 

[Area Man]

Today was -25 so probably part of the problem.

Seriously?