Fouling Beast: Tubb Final Finish?
- Thread starter Brians356
- Start date
bigedp51
brians356 said:
The instructions that come with Tubbs final finish state that it will not make the bore any larger than .0003 if all 50 rounds are fired, and fdshuster stated it made his bore .0005 larger.
You bought the rifle from a pawn shop 20 years after it was manufactured and have no idea what abuse the barrel went through before you bought it. And without inspecting the bore you didn't know what was causing the copper buildup. It is your rifle you can do as you wish "BUT" hundreds of people are reading this posting and my point is the bore should be examined before deciding if your going to make the bore larger...meaning "LOOK" before you leap.
On top of this one of the links I posted stated many times just shooting the rifle followed by a proper cleaning regiment could solve the problem. And if your bore is pitted grinding down the tops of the pits will not stop them from filling with copper. And this is why I recommend foam bore cleaner from my experience cleaning pitted and frosted milsurp bores.
Doctor do no harm...
Another way to state it is that, "given an existing problem, it may be better not to do something, or even to do nothing, than to risk causing more harm than good."
The above message was brought to you by the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Rifle Bores. (Illegitimi non carborundum)
Brians356
Silver $$ Contributor
bigedp51 said:
My sentiments exactly! But when did the topic switch to "Saving The Planet From Evil, Poisonous CO2"?
Seriously, the relatively small expense of the Tubb F.F. kit was well worth the gamble - sight unseen - with that old bore, given that my other options were: a) sell it, b) live with it, c) re-barrel it.
The gamble already paid off 50% in easy cleaning. The other half of the payout is still TBD as you point out, pending my shooting report.
bigedp51
brians356
Don't take it too hard, you have to understand I'm just one of seven living heart transplant donors in this forum and it could have been worse. :
Don't take it too hard, you have to understand I'm just one of seven living heart transplant donors in this forum and it could have been worse. :
I'm not sold on the copper solvent treatment. I did not see any difference after letting the solvent sit on a fire cracked bore for 10 hrs. The sample piece was a set back sawed to reviel throat area, inspected with a 10X jewlers lope. If you were to solidify that blue liquid coming out of the bore from foam cleaning how much copper would be in it ??? I'm not saying Im a fan of bore lapping bullets. #9 works fine for me. Copper solvent is a $$$$ market ploy. MHO
bigedp51
noload
I'm retired from a military overhaul and repair depot and I saw foam bore cleaner being used on field pieces/cannon barrels and that night on the way home I bought some for myself and have never looked back. I was using the foam primarily on my milsurp rifles and letting the foam do all the work with minimal cleaning rod time. Normally even the worst frosted and pitted milsurp bores only require two applications of foam after getting them and only one application of foam for normal cleaning after shooting.
I'm sure you have heard of Lapua bullets made in Finland, so guess what country invented Milfoam.
(and holds the patent)
MILFOAM LTD
http://www.milfoam.fi/barrel_cleaning_products.html
http://www.milfoam.fi/Examples%20of%20cleaning%20result.pdf
Before
And after
If you let the foam soak overnight the copper is gone and any carbon is softened and comes out with a synthetic fiber brush. So again the less time the cleaning rod spends in your bore the better off you are, less is more.
And if the foam doesn't turn blue you don't have any copper in the bore, and foam bore cleaner isn't abrasive and will not enlarge your bore.
I'm retired from a military overhaul and repair depot and I saw foam bore cleaner being used on field pieces/cannon barrels and that night on the way home I bought some for myself and have never looked back. I was using the foam primarily on my milsurp rifles and letting the foam do all the work with minimal cleaning rod time. Normally even the worst frosted and pitted milsurp bores only require two applications of foam after getting them and only one application of foam for normal cleaning after shooting.
I'm sure you have heard of Lapua bullets made in Finland, so guess what country invented Milfoam.
(and holds the patent) MILFOAM LTD
http://www.milfoam.fi/barrel_cleaning_products.html
http://www.milfoam.fi/Examples%20of%20cleaning%20result.pdf
Before
And after
If you let the foam soak overnight the copper is gone and any carbon is softened and comes out with a synthetic fiber brush. So again the less time the cleaning rod spends in your bore the better off you are, less is more.
And if the foam doesn't turn blue you don't have any copper in the bore, and foam bore cleaner isn't abrasive and will not enlarge your bore.
biged
Those pictures are impressive. In my case (shooting a custom barrel)> not milsur damaged. Would it benifit me making the bore as clean as a dinner plate ? I stopped trying the copper cleaner 4 barrels ago, I have not seen my scores fall off. I wonder if I pushed the same pilot bushing thru the bore as I used when reaming....would I notice it being choked-up with copper or not feel any difference at all? (thats something I should try.) I think maybe that copper coating may help shooting results and should stay put. Hoppies, after a soak will remove copper....is any more required for me..possibly not. For the OPs barrel and your Mil/sur its probably good to use. I would imagine copper solvents are like salad dressings.. some good and some not so good.
Those pictures are impressive. In my case (shooting a custom barrel)> not milsur damaged. Would it benifit me making the bore as clean as a dinner plate ? I stopped trying the copper cleaner 4 barrels ago, I have not seen my scores fall off. I wonder if I pushed the same pilot bushing thru the bore as I used when reaming....would I notice it being choked-up with copper or not feel any difference at all? (thats something I should try.) I think maybe that copper coating may help shooting results and should stay put. Hoppies, after a soak will remove copper....is any more required for me..possibly not. For the OPs barrel and your Mil/sur its probably good to use. I would imagine copper solvents are like salad dressings.. some good and some not so good.
Not sure what product people are using, but I have used “Sharp Shoot R Wip-Out Brushless Foaming Bore Cleaning Solvent†for a couple of years and unfortunately have not seen that degree of effectiveness. I’ve had barrels that still give blue patches after 4-5 cleaning cycles.
The other thing to be careful of when using the above product is it can in fact damage the finish of your rifle. The product says it is safe on all barrel steel but it avoids saying anything about finish. In my case, the phosphate finish of my PWS FSC556 was irreversibly damaged by this product. Luckily it was only run-and-gun rifle and so blemish is not a big deal. You might be less lucky with your more expensive rifles.
The other thing to be careful of when using the above product is it can in fact damage the finish of your rifle. The product says it is safe on all barrel steel but it avoids saying anything about finish. In my case, the phosphate finish of my PWS FSC556 was irreversibly damaged by this product. Luckily it was only run-and-gun rifle and so blemish is not a big deal. You might be less lucky with your more expensive rifles.
Brians356
Silver $$ Contributor
bigedp51,
MilFoam seems like a great product. Their web site says the USA agent is ATK/GunSlick. I find GunSlick Foaming Gun Cleaner is commonly available at the chain SGS - is that the same product do you suppose? I prefer something available off the local store shelves.
For me, SharpShootR "PatchOut" fills the bill. It is also designed to be "brushless", and from what I can tell reading about MilFoam, works similarly (soak and push out) except the syrupy PatchOut is applied with a patch, so in that sense it does require one additional intrusion of a cleaning rod. (I haven't tried the WipeOut Foaming Bore Cleaner "jlow" mentioned.)
I use a Parker-Hale jag, wrapped with a patch in a cylinder like a roll of paper towels, the patch large enough to form a snug fit with the bore. Then I saturate the cylinder with PatchOut and short stroke it through the bore, remove the patch and jag at the muzzle, then withdraw the rod. All that ever touches the bore are the patch and the plastic rod coating.
This method deposits nearly all of the cleaner in the bore. I let it soak for a few hours, inverting the rifle scope-down in the cleaning vise half the time (it's a syrup, not a thin liquid, but some pooling probably takes place - one likely disadvantage versus the foam.)
MilFoam seems like a great product. Their web site says the USA agent is ATK/GunSlick. I find GunSlick Foaming Gun Cleaner is commonly available at the chain SGS - is that the same product do you suppose? I prefer something available off the local store shelves.
For me, SharpShootR "PatchOut" fills the bill. It is also designed to be "brushless", and from what I can tell reading about MilFoam, works similarly (soak and push out) except the syrupy PatchOut is applied with a patch, so in that sense it does require one additional intrusion of a cleaning rod. (I haven't tried the WipeOut Foaming Bore Cleaner "jlow" mentioned.)
I use a Parker-Hale jag, wrapped with a patch in a cylinder like a roll of paper towels, the patch large enough to form a snug fit with the bore. Then I saturate the cylinder with PatchOut and short stroke it through the bore, remove the patch and jag at the muzzle, then withdraw the rod. All that ever touches the bore are the patch and the plastic rod coating.
This method deposits nearly all of the cleaner in the bore. I let it soak for a few hours, inverting the rifle scope-down in the cleaning vise half the time (it's a syrup, not a thin liquid, but some pooling probably takes place - one likely disadvantage versus the foam.)
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Why?
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