Forum Behavior -- Show Respect and Avoid Politics

[Forum Boss]

Gentlemen,

Recently I have had to close/edit some threads because a few members were posting disparaging or insulting comments.

That won't be tolerated in this board.

Civil exchange of ideas is what we want. It is OK to disagree. But don't insult one another. I don't want to see comments such as "that's idiotic", "you're full of crap", "you are clueless", "you need professional help", "B*llshit" etc.

All that does is provoke a more heated retort and then the thread devolves into a pissing match.

I'm dead serious about this. The AccurateShooter Forum has been around since 2004. So far, we've managed to avoid the kind of flame wars that have spoiled some other Forums.

But I don't want to see this kind of stuff start here, and I think 99.9% of Forum members agree.

So... in short... if you've got your dander up because you disagree with somebody -- stay calm. Keep a level head and don't resort to insults. Don't sink to the other fellow's level. If there is something that offends you, let me know about the issue -- don't just respond back with insults or fighting words.

I have zero patience for this kind of thing. Mainly because I've got a zillion other tasks to perform on this web site. If people can't behave like adults -- can't avoid personal insults and fighting words, then I'll start deleting threads altogether at the first sign of trouble.

I don't have the time to read, police, and sanitize individual responses. If people persist in the flame wars I have no option but to delete entire threads and that would be a dis-service for those who made legitimate posts.

---------------------------------------
AVOID POLITICAL POSTS -- This Spawns Hostility

Forum Moderator Jay Christopherson NOTE:
This a private forum, dedicated to *shooting*. Not politics.

So, to get back to our regularly scheduled programming, we're going to be cracking down on political threads. If it's even *tangentially* related to politics, it's going to get canned pretty quick. If a poster persists in posting politically charged content, they will be "asked" to take a break. Policing political threads takes up way too much time and energy - both of which are better spent by the management doing load development and getting ready for matches.

Some of you may not like this policy - all I can do is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . This is a private forum. We reserve the right to police the content in any way we see fit. Those of you that see this as a "free speech" violation are dead wrong. There are plenty of forums out there specifically setup to discuss political issues. Go there.

If you are interested in accurate shooting of all types, then this is the place for you and welcome.

EDIT: The PM system allows you to hold "group" conversations - if you really want to, you can always setup conversations amongst yourselves about whatever you like.

 

[TheSilverFox]

This forum has not yet fallen victim to childish behaviour. It would be a shame if it did. Unfortunately the more popular you become the harder it will be for you to police.

If you would like some moderators to volunteer I would gladdly help you out. I just dont know what qualifications i need, LOL.

Cheers Mike D.

 

[DesertLefty]

Aye aye, Skipper! We're with you.

 

[Macs]

Very well stated.

 

[chuckw2]

Guys,
It is a damn shame that Mr. Moderator has to pin a post like this. I have always been amazed how people can post something that is designed to make the person asking the question feel like a idiot.


Everyone has a lot of questions, no one has all of the answers.

A couple of years ago, we had one of the most opinionated individuals on the planet posting on our forum. He is a smart guy and could have been a valuable asset to our little group....but his comments were always, always, very caustic.

I was very glad to see him go.

Why do we have to draw a line in the sand when someone ask "What do you think about the .17HMR as a deer cartridge?" If you think it a stupid question, just do not comment.

 

[treeman]

I for one hope we can keep posts civil. snide remarks take the fun out of it for everybody. i've made posts that were refuted and thats ok. i've been reloading for 22 years and its great to share my expirience with new reloaders. i'm still learning myself and appreciate the posts from more expirienced loaders/ shooters.______treeman

 

[con10der]

As a new member here and at this point I tend to sit back and take things in.I have recently aquired an interest in small caliber superfast bullets and longrange accuracy.I have shot mainly handguns for the past 7 years so this is all new,so I may be more inclined to "jump in" if I know I will not be "flamed" for saying something stupid or asking a :dumb question".I may just read for now,but eventually I will hopefully be able to contribute as well as take from this site.Thanks for having me,jim

 

[Rustystud]

I would like to commend PAUL for running a great website. Generally this is a politically correct bunch with a common goal of safe fun and respectful shooting. We as shooters need to be aware of how we reflect to the non shooting public. Just as shooting is a priveledge so is membership to this website.

Again Paul you are doing a great job.

Rustystud, a/k/a Nathaniel G. Lambeth, Sr

 

[Forum Boss]

German Salazar recently closed his very valuable ShooterJournal.com Forums to new posts. The archives remain up, but there are no new posts since 2/1/2008.

The reason was that it was taking him an increasing amount of time every week to police the threads and insure that his members were not getting into verbal fist fights.

If folks want to keep this Forum going, for God's sake treat other members with respect.

There seems to be a pattern that sets things off. Poster A, who assumes he is WAY smarter/more experienced, will make a snide or sarcastic remark to poster B. This leads to an escalation, with B barking back at A, and A responding with insults. Then, guess what, Poster A emails me complaining that "Help Mr. Moderator, you should ban Poster B!! He called me an over-bearing SOB". I go back to the thread and -- guess what -- it was crystal clear what set off the dispute -- the sarcastic, disparaging, or "clever" insult by Poster A.

I'm convinced now that, in some situations, Poster A is actually looking to get into an online sparing match... baiting other posters into replying.

Folks... we're all too adult for that.

Likewise, I want to say in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that the mere fact that you THINK you have superior knowledge about a particular topic than another Forum member does NOT give you the right to belittle or insult others.

Just this week I've seen two instances where Poster A unloaded all over other members, scathing them for being inexperienced numbskulls. Well, turns out Poster A's knowledge of the situation was far from perfect too. One thread involved stock bedding. I actually took the time to call Alex Sitman and Tom Meredith, two of the most respected stockers in the country, to see whether Mr. A was correct. Guess what, both said the Mister A's advice was not very sound, and that the practice advocated by other posters,whom Mr. A called "stupid") was the better way.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...

I don't want to see Forum members belittling others or being "cute" by using snide or sarcastic language to make other members look foolish. I'd say that, more often than not, those posters who loudly announce they have "superior knowledge", have a lot to learn also....

Keep that in mind -- that we ALL have a lot to learn -- and be courteous.

It also helps to show some humility. Consider this, most sports historians would name John Wooden as the greatest college basketball coach of all time, by a large margin. But if you have ever talked to Coach Wooden,and I have), the first thing you notice is that he doesn't disparage other coaches, call them "fools" or "morons" or "losers". He will render advice but he will never say "this is the only way to do it".

Wooden is actually quick to preface his thoughts by saying "it's a long time since I've coached... so much has changed ... this is only one man's perspective." He doesn't say "SHUT UP you boobs and listen to me because I'm so smart."

But guess what, the man is 97 years old and people are still listening.

 

[Tommie]

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[Forum Boss]

I wanted to add some good news and bad news, to put things in perspective.

Good News: 99.9% of the 4,480 members of this board exhibit respect and courtesy to other posters. There really are only a few "bad apples."

Bad News: I've spent about 8-10 hours this week reviewing and policing threads, including 2 hours tonight. That's time NOT spent putting together articles that EVERYONE can read and enjoy. So... you don't have the new, comprehensive 17 Caliber Article I was planning to release Wednesday. Hopefully I can get it up tomorrow.

The effort it takes to filter "contentious" posts has a direct, negative impact on my ability to release new, important content that serves a much wider audience.

 

[memilanuk]

Perhaps you need to issue a bigger stick to your 'help'... and encourage them to exercise it. To some degree you'll still have to keep an eye on them to guard against excesses, but I'd like to think this site,and the forum) has grown beyond being a one-sheriff town... most forums with this much activity end up deputizing some of the more moderate members to help keep the brush fires knocked down to size so the big boys can keep their eye on the ball of running the site as a whole. Just a thought.


I'm not sure how much,if any) help German had on his site... generally I almost never saw any real infighting there. He must have kept a tight lid on it for it to be as bad as you mentioned. I didn't visit there as much as some other sites, and I generally avoid some of the more contentious subjects on most forums if I can, but I find it hard to fathom it was really that bad. Guess thats what happens when you get a bunch of strong-willed opinionated types together in one area

Monte

 

[Forum Boss]

Monte,

Good idea.

Jason is "empowered" as a Moderator but he's been super busy with new job, getting married, moving to a new town, and working on his Smackthesmiley.com operation.

Moderating is a thankless job, but if someone is interested in helping, let me know. Perhaps the simplest thing is to have a "zero tolerance" policy so that a helper isn't constantly charged with making tough judgment calls.

If everyone knows that ANY insult or flame means INSTANT post deletion--no questions asked, no explanations given, then the "bad apples" might change their ways...

 

[chuckw2]

Paul,

Delete the post, hammer the posters head real good One Time. If he does it again ban him from this site. No one has time to read that BS.



Chuck

 

[Fred Bohl]

The intent of this forum is to provide an on-line opportunity for the friendly discussion and sharing of our collective hard won knowledge and ideas about precision shooting.

Good people often have different ideas or beliefs arising from similar experiences. Wise people learn best from calm discussion with those of differing views. Let us all try to remember to temper our strongly held opinions with respect for the strongly held opinions of others.

Paul - I'd offer to help, but at least once having been part of the problem rather than part of a solution, I'll defer others of hopefully better character

 

[Forum Boss]

I've just spent another two hours trying to police a thread that got all bogged down. One party was offended by some disparaging comments he thought were about him, but were actually written about somebody else. This led to countering criticisms. Then a post was made criticizing a Forum member,Mr. A) for comments that were actually written by Mr. B. And then it just got worse.

What a mess. Here's the deal guys.

DON'T INSULT OTHER PEOPLE.

JUST DON'T DO IT. EVER. PERIOD.

WHEN DISCUSSING TECHNICAL TOPICS, STICK to the FACTS. We can all talk weights, dimensions, and group sizes in a calm, reasoned fashioned. When one starts talking about so and so's bad attitude or lack of skill/insight/intelligence, then the thread goes to pot in a hurry.

DON'T POST SOMETHING YOU KNOW YOU WOULDN'T SAY to the OTHER FELLOW FACE-To-FACE.

I'm going to have to resort to some draconian measures. That means rapid thread closure or deletion once things get out of hand.

It's bad enough to try to police obvious "over the top" remarks. It's nigh impossible to expect me to correct misquoted posts and people reacting to something posted on ANOTHER Forum.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Paul, I guess I am the main culprit in turning the thread in the wrong direction. I just did not feel like I should sit by and let a poster "muck rake" shooters from Benchrest.com, and no one call him on it. I did not give you time to do just that.
This site and Benchrest.com are kindred, not just in the Format, but in the fact that we pride ourselves in keeping the discource civil. Regardless of what was written here, the was really no "war" going on over there. It was simply one individule brow beating every one else over issues that were in disagreement.
I was wrong to come to your site and make the statement that I did.. It proves that when you get down in the gutter with someone else, you just pick up the stink........jackie

 

[JRS]

This seems to be a great site and group of people.

I just left the Benchrest Central site due to a small group of individuals who believe it is OK to make racial remarks. Hard to believe this is happening in this country in 2008. Either the moderators there are not policing those threads, or they condone it.
Glad to see this site operated by people with integrity.

 

[DennisSorensen]

JRS

I am a member of Benchrest Central for quite a while now ... I have not seen the racial comments you are referring to... they are not something Benchrest Central will put up with... the moderator is one person and is very busy... he does not read every posting but if he were emailed a complaint he would deal with it. People have been banned for forum infractions.

Come on back...

Dennis

 

[JRS]

My disenchantment is not with you Mr. Sorensen. I enjoyed your threads and help as I did those of many others.