Forming 6br brass from .308?
- Thread starter hoz53
- Start date
You would be surprised at what you can form without having "Form dies" by simply starting with the newly chosen caliber seating die and leaving it high up in the press so as when the ram is near the top of the stroke that is the point at which a small amount of sizing begins.. Then merely lower the ram , screw die down a quarter turn , resize , lower ram , screw die down quarter turn etc etc.. When that case is done you continue the steps in the sizing die until you have something that will chamber after it has been trimmed etc.
One thing to keep in mind when forming cases in this manner is that your new cases are going to be quite thick due to the fact that you have been shoving back the shoulder area and case body , so your case capacity will be sometimes significantly less than say off the shelf brass.. Therefore affecting the load data that may be used for that cartridge.
As an example , I have formed a single 243 win case out of a 284 win case using the above method , it's not easy and the brass is merely used as a conversation piece but it can be done.
You will need to do some annealing obviously along with investing in either an inside neck reamer or an appropriate expanding mandrel mates to a quality neck turning setup.
Could it be done? Absolutely , would I do it? No and for two reasons... Firstly the cases would now be using large primers and secondly the diminished case capacity.
Good luck.
One thing to keep in mind when forming cases in this manner is that your new cases are going to be quite thick due to the fact that you have been shoving back the shoulder area and case body , so your case capacity will be sometimes significantly less than say off the shelf brass.. Therefore affecting the load data that may be used for that cartridge.
As an example , I have formed a single 243 win case out of a 284 win case using the above method , it's not easy and the brass is merely used as a conversation piece but it can be done.
You will need to do some annealing obviously along with investing in either an inside neck reamer or an appropriate expanding mandrel mates to a quality neck turning setup.
Could it be done? Absolutely , would I do it? No and for two reasons... Firstly the cases would now be using large primers and secondly the diminished case capacity.
Good luck.
So you used a single 243 sizing die to make a 243 case out of a 284WIN case?
How the heck did you manage to get the case web reduced in diameter that much while keeping the rim intact with just one die?
With all the folks wishing they had an easy and reliable means of sizing case heads down a bit to keep primers in their pockets you may be on to something!
Not exaxtly , i started with a seating die then proceeded with the sizing die... Make no mistake it was both time consuming and I would by no means use that piece of brass for anything but a conversation piece.
It was done merely to show a few friends that you can indeed make chicken salad out of chicken shit should the need arise .
It was done merely to show a few friends that you can indeed make chicken salad out of chicken shit should the need arise .
And then there was the shell holder, the deck height of the shell holder is .125" and there is .030" difference in diameter of the case heads between the 243 W and 284 W case. And I understand the 284W case head is rebated.
And then there is the case head, most case heads are solid with a small hole in the center.
F. Guffey
That part is the one think I find most impossible; when I move the shoulder back the case body beneath the shoulder folds like an accordion.
F. Guffey
With all due respect Mr. Guffey , if that is what happens when you move shoulders back then you my friend are doing it wrong and have been for quite some time..
I do not know how many different ways there are to say something but I will try again. When I form a case the shoulder does not move. Again saying the same thing in a different way; I have fired 8mm57 ammo in an 8mm06 chamber with .127" clearance between the shoulder of the case and shoulder of the chamber and 'again' the shoulder on the 8mm57 case did not move.
So I will say if we disagree it is because you assume the shoulder moves. and then I have fired 308 W ammo in a 30/06 chamber, again the shoulder on the 308 W case did not move for a slightly different reason. The length of the chamber for a 30/06 from the shoulder to the to the bolt face is .388 longer than the length of a 308 W case from the shoulder to the case head.
F. Guffey
Correct.. I was not able to nor was i interested in swaging a .496" dia piece of brass down to .468" lol .. The point of it being that yes i was able to slowly work a piece of 284 brass into a 243 give or take .200" in length from the head.
Now as to you latest post , i suppose we will amicably claim philosophical differences... If I have a case that has a base to shoulder measurement of 1.850" and after sizing it in a specific die it now measures 1.848 or even 1.748" I would think it safe to say I have moved the shoulder back..
I gues I'm lucky in that my shoulders do indeed move if i should wish them to lol.
Good day
And I would say you did not move the shoulder, I would say you reduce the length of the case from the new shoulder to the case head but again I would insist you did not move the shoulder. I would insist part of your case body became part of the new shoulder and part of the old shoulder became part of the neck.
F. Guffey
? I,m lost on that one.
Semantics.
Shoulder 'doesn't move' = shoulder re-formed out of what once was case wall, while former shoulder becomes new neck.
Base-to-shoulder datum is changed according to specs of cartridge shape desired.
hoz53
Gold $$ Contributor
Thanks for that explanation patch. I had not thought of using a seating die. I had been planning to use a series of standard factory dies though. I'm sure not going to buy any special forming dies to do it. I may buy some sort of neck reamer.Tomato: fruit, or vegetable?
These die sets work very well, Skip Otto made one for me many years ago. Would like to know who made this one for sure.
Die set I originally used for 6XC was D. Tubb's. Neck bushings incorporated shoulder cone; included case-length bushing was excellent for initial shaping as neck portion was something like 0.280".
Neil Jones made me a similar forming die for 6.5 Grendel around 2005, also featured bushings that shaped shoulder.
Neil Jones made me a similar forming die for 6.5 Grendel around 2005, also featured bushings that shaped shoulder.
Reloaders assume they bump the shoulder of the case thinking the shoulder moves. I said "the new shoulder", the new shoulder is not the same shoulder the reloaders believes he moves. The old shoulder is erased and becomes part of the neck and part of case body becomes part of the shoulder, again, the shoulder does not move.
Again, I have fired 8mm57 ammo in an 8mm/06 chamber. The first reaction from reloaders claim .127" difference in length between the case and chamber will result in case head separation and I said the shoulder did not move. If the shoulder did not move the case did not stretch. That is another one that will loose you.
F. Guffey
The seating die does not have case body support, when investing in forming dies I choose to spend the money on short forming dies. I know' there is a lot of information to keep up with and it is necessary to invest in feeler gages.
F. Guffey
The first picture shows a set of shoulder set back dies made by pbike257 (a member on this forum) and they work very well. If you do a search on this site there is a video he made demonstrating how they work. Unfortunately he has not been heard from in quite awhile. I don't know who made the dies in the second picture. dedogs
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.