Hi Folks, any one have advice for forming 221 FB brass into 20 VT brass?
Planning on using redding 20VT FL S bushing die for this.
Planning on using redding 20VT FL S bushing die for this.
Forming 221 Fireball brass into 20VT brass
- Thread starter Mr Underbridge
- Start date
Adam 6mm build
Silver $$ Contributor
Run your 221 fireball brass through your 20 vartarg die and shot very easily done
Any neck turning required? I will have a 0.232 neck according to my reamer.
Rick in Oregon
Gold $$ Contributor
I use a Redding body die, and a bushing neck die and use a .226" bushing with dry neck lube; works great, have not lost a single case in just over 900 formed cases. I also anneal after forming....may not be needed, but some cases have seven firings on them with no split necks (they'll get done before next loading though). I have found that for my Cooper chamber at least, neck turning is always required, if for nothing more than neck thickness consistency and proper chamber fit.
My loaded rounds mic .228", and my chamber is also .232". HTH
Hmm thanks. Do you know what the brass life (Lapua) on this cartridge is? Im mostly looking at making mild loads to practice prone shooting at 100 yards.
Rick in Oregon
Gold $$ Contributor
Can't offer much there....I'm using Lapua and Nosler brass, most of it has at least four or five reloading cycles so far. Not really enough to give you a definitive answer. Before either company offered 221FB brass, I was using R-P, and I always got seven cycles out of it before I annealed and put them back into service.
Just a WAG, but I'd guess that Lapua brass in this caliber should last you a very long time with prudent handloading practices and those mild loads.
Maybe my first 221 Lapua cases are from a different batch and possibly process. These came from Todd Kindler the summer of '15. Necks after forming to 20 VT were 0.0134" so I turned them to 0.0127 to provide the desired clearance with my nominal 0.232 chamber. I use a 0.228 bushing. I still get some drag over the expander with this bushing, and plenty of interference with the bullet. Spring-back is 0.0006 or so on the diameter. To avoid "ring around the bullet" with Sierrra 39s, I dust the neck ID with graphite.
Anyway, I'd measure the thickness of your brass before making a turning decision.
As to life - I haven't fired the Lapua cases made from 221 enough to add anything. The ones made from 222 cases have been loaded over ten times and are still going, if that's any kind of indication. Use the largest bushing that will provide neck tension to maximize case life.
Anyway, I'd measure the thickness of your brass before making a turning decision.
As to life - I haven't fired the Lapua cases made from 221 enough to add anything. The ones made from 222 cases have been loaded over ten times and are still going, if that's any kind of indication. Use the largest bushing that will provide neck tension to maximize case life.
If you are shooting mild loads just for practice, if you anneal every onc in a while to keep the necks from cracking, your cases will probably last indefinitely. If you load them hot for those long PD shots, you will still get ten or more loadings.
Although it goes against reloading safety and you didn't hear it from me, Lapua brass can take quite a bit of punishment. I like to think of it as an extra margin of safety rather than an invitation to hotrod.
Although it goes against reloading safety and you didn't hear it from me, Lapua brass can take quite a bit of punishment. I like to think of it as an extra margin of safety rather than an invitation to hotrod.
Prose
Silver $$ Contributor
I've also got a .232 necked vartarg and have resized lapua 221 cases without too much trouble. It can be done. I've also used remington brass which does not last 1/4 as long when loading hot. I think the best value that I've found is using high plains brass or sleeping giant brass and turning the necks. For the money you save you can buy a very nice neck turning tool. I've got 10 reloads on some lapua and lake city cases, but the remingtons were done after 3 or 4 (all annealed every time). Your results may vary.
My only advice for going the lake city route is to get a single lot of brass. Point of impact and velocity differences among different years causes an extreme spread that is a little frustrating. Sleeping Giant Brass can provide single lots as the guy will hand sort them for you. I see no difference in performance from LC and Lapua, only price and the amount of work involved. Check out saubier.com as there are hundreds of threads along these lines. Heck, search my name and you'll probably learn everything that I learned the hard way.
Redding Bushing Dies are great for this cartridge considering the variations in brass.
My only advice for going the lake city route is to get a single lot of brass. Point of impact and velocity differences among different years causes an extreme spread that is a little frustrating. Sleeping Giant Brass can provide single lots as the guy will hand sort them for you. I see no difference in performance from LC and Lapua, only price and the amount of work involved. Check out saubier.com as there are hundreds of threads along these lines. Heck, search my name and you'll probably learn everything that I learned the hard way.
Redding Bushing Dies are great for this cartridge considering the variations in brass.
I already have a neck turner, just ordered a short neck 30 degree carbide bit.
Need to order some bushings and the die so I can neck down the brass in steps.
Need to order some bushings and the die so I can neck down the brass in steps.
Rick in Oregon
Gold $$ Contributor
My experience with the 20VT reflects this also. No need to do multi-step neck diameter reduction from 224" to 204".
ASbobcat
Silver $$ Contributor
I agree with what several others have said. I have an older .231 neck chamber and definitely have to turn necks. .232 will be very close, too close for my comfort. It won't hurt to do a cleanup since there may be some minor runout after necking down. I never checked this since I was going to have to turn anyway. You will probably want to do this anyway since you're going to have a donut using the bushing die.
If I ever have to order another Vartarg (they last forever, so not likely at my age) I would choose a .233NK just to be safe.
Rick in Oregon
Gold $$ Contributor
Forever may be spot-on for a 20VT. Mine has just over 4,200 rounds downrange, and still shoots in the .2's. It's one dang fine varmint caliber!
Prose
Silver $$ Contributor
I should mention that with the bushing die the first pass can be with no bushing, that will bring you to .232, second pass can be with bushing to final outside diameter. So technically two steps.
My gunsmith had a 20VT reamer that the neck is .235 on the rifle, so Lapua brass is okay. I have a bushing of .230 and it works well.
B23
Gold $$ Contributor
I have a 20-250 and neck down Lapua 22-250 brass in one step using a Redding 22-250 type S FL die with a .230 bushing and it must be working ok because the very first three shot group out of the gun went a .150 at 100 yards.
B23
Gold $$ Contributor
Yes Sir, was VERY happy with how it turned out. Defensive Edge has built me some outstanding shooting rifles, the worst one of all that they've built me shoots in the .3's.
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