Foam wedge for back support

[Ringostar]

These rules were obviously put in for sling shooting. I don't see that it would create any advantage for F-class. If it helps someone continue shooting, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

[Immike]

These rules were obviously put in for sling shooting. I don't see that it would create any advantage for F-class. If it helps someone continue shooting, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I think the same on this and should be submitted to the NRA by those interested.

 

[Cakes]

The lower back is probably the most abused and neglected link on most people. I fell 10' off a ladder in a not very smart thing I did 30 some years ago and it has haunted me ever since. Aside from surgery I have found that a heavy dose of stretching, hockey and my kettle-bells keeps me up and running most of the time. I can get down behind the gun just fine but standing up after a 20 minute string can sometimes be just a tad painful. Sometimes I'll sneak a sweatshirt under my shooting pad on one side just to alleviate some of the discomfort. IMO this rule is a "sling" thing that should be excluded from the f-class crowd. Minus 27F a couple of mornings ago, yikes! Happy Holidays to all! Eric in DL

 

[DE-F-Open]

I hope to be a new F class competitor this coming year. I have a really bad back and a stiff neck and it is more than a bit difficult getting down into position with my front rest tripod and bag in the rear.

Is it legal to put a sort of wedge under your chest to take the strain off the back as you shoot? A wedge of about an inch under your pelvis tapering up to 8 to 10 inches under your shoulders made out of something like pillow foam.

You may want to read Rule 13.1 and use that process to petition for authorization.

Good luck - hope to see you on the range

John

 

[370bc]

The lower back is probably the most abused and neglected link on most people. I fell 10' off a ladder in a not very smart thing I did 30 some years ago and it has haunted me ever since. Aside from surgery I have found that a heavy dose of stretching, hockey and my kettle-bells keeps me up and running most of the time. I can get down behind the gun just fine but standing up after a 20 minute string can sometimes be just a tad painful. Sometimes I'll sneak a sweatshirt under my shooting pad on one side just to alleviate some of the discomfort. IMO this rule is a "sling" thing that should be excluded from the f-class crowd. Minus 27F a couple of mornings ago, yikes! Happy Holidays to all! Eric in DL

Just remember, you have been intelligently designed!

 

[370bc]

Yes, it is legal and not uncommon. I use a wedge but I found that the foam was too compressible and did not provide the support I needed. I removed the foam and filled it with buckwheat hulls instead. This gave me the support I needed, moldability, and reasonably light weight. It works well. My pillow is a bit smaller however than the wedge you describe; it is about 14 inches wide, 5 tall, and 16 long.

Could you post a pic of your support pad? I would love to lay prone, waiting for coyotes to show up. Just too painful. Thank you.

 

[Ggmac]

Been using one for years at local range , I shoot prone and had 5 failed back surgeries.

 

[rardoin]

Could you post a pic of your support pad? I would love to lay prone, waiting for coyotes to show up. Just too painful. Thank you.

Yes, I can take one this pm and post. I tried to find it online and provide a link but I cannot locate the site. I did find a bunch of 'naughty' pillows sold by dealers of whips and chains and such....searches come up with unexpected results at times.

 

[Ggmac]

Yup , every time I take it out at the range the RO teases me and says it looks like a sex Aide ?

 

[370bc]

Yes, I can take one this pm and post. I tried to find it online and provide a link but I cannot locate the site. I did find a bunch of 'naughty' pillows sold by dealers of whips and chains and such....searches come up with unexpected results at times.

I found a wedge pillow in the medial field. I guess that is what you guys might be talking about. Thx!

 

[rardoin]

I found a wedge pillow in the medial field. I guess that is what you guys might be talking about. Thx!

Yes...it is that sort of thing. The one I have is about 14 inches wide and 16 long. It is is also about 5 inches high on one end tapering to about 1" at the other. I found the supplied foam was too compressible hence the fill with buckwheat hulls. This keeps it fairly light weight but feels like a firm bean bag in use.

Sorry about the lack of pics as my phone went for a swim and did not survive. I picked up a new phone last night and can take a pic if still desired.

 

[370bc]

Yes...it is that sort of thing. The one I have is about 14 inches wide and 16 long. It is is also about 5 inches high on one end tapering to about 1" at the other. I found the supplied foam was too compressible hence the fill with buckwheat hulls. This keeps it fairly light weight but feels like a firm bean bag in use.

Sorry about the lack of pics as my phone went for a swim and did not survive. I picked up a new phone last night and can take a pic if still desired.

No, that won't be necessary. Thx Tho!

 

[dcali]

Rule 5.6 is also relevant (the description of the prone position). I would have a hard time saying that any padding that is there to provide comfort is in violation of the spirit of any of the rules being discussed, which generally pertain to using creative materials and ways to support the rifle. I fail to see how a wedge pillow does that. It's just too much of a stretch.

Technically, I read it as illegal, and poorly written (although I'm not sure I could do better - rules are hard!). 5.2 defines artificial support as "not the ground", but 3.10 says "well, you can use a mat, so long is it's not artificial support, which as we'll note we just defined as is defined as "not the ground"... Even for sling shooting, this rule could use a little cleaning up.

Practically speaking, I see guys putting extra pads and whatnot under their shooting hand elbow ALL THE TIME and nobody bitches, win or lose. This seems very much in the same vein - they do that to keep their arm/elbow comfortable, not to support the rifle. I wear a slightly padded elbow brace just to keep my elbow from scraping across our concrete floor during recoil. Is that illegal too? What if you wore the wedge pillow as part of your clothing? (Now THAT would be worth a picture.) I mean, the sling guys wear pillow shirts that actually DO support the rifle... Just sayin'. (I kid - I love shooting sling, and my shooting coat. I really do).

Long story short, it seems pretty clear the intent of this rule is to keep people from shoving pillows under their non-trigger forearm while slung up to provide additional support.

 

[SWRichmond]

In the worst case, someone can invent a device that looks like fake boobs that performs the provides the necessary support. If anyone complains, odds are it is protected under the confused gender laws.

Logged in just to upvote you. I haven't posted on this site in months. Perfect post.

But while I am here...yes, people put elbow pads under their elbows, and it is for placement consistency I am sure. So they ARE shooting aids IMO. My shooting mat is padded, but uniformly. Yes it aids comfort.

If you went to nationals with a crafted body pad which held you in position, I think you'd get told to knock it off.

 

[Immike]

Logged in just to upvote you. I haven't posted on this site in months. Perfect post.

But while I am here...yes, people put elbow pads under their elbows, and it is for placement consistency I am sure. So they ARE shooting aids IMO. My shooting mat is padded, but uniformly. Yes it aids comfort.

If you went to nationals with a crafted body pad which held you in position, I think you'd get told to knock it off.

I use a elbow sand bag to keep my elbow from getting raw and to reposition also. . A shooting jacket might be the answer to some of these prayers, several still wear them in Fclass for stability. As far as relaxing of the rules for Fclass .... I don't think a body support component is a advantage in a seperated piece such as a wedge for back trouble. Not that you should be DQ from the score board anyway. Most of us with any back issues find our shooting height and resting positions as we compete and work around it. It takes time to figure that out and to test it on long haul matches.

 

[Rangemeister]

I can see where a foam / support wedge would be considered an unfair advantage when using a sling in a prone position. Using the same support when the rifle is fully supported with a rest / bag would be much less advantageous. I certainly wouldn't DQ a shooter at a local match because of back pain, I'd let them do what they need to do. Perhaps running the overall height of the rifle and rest setup higher or lower would help take the edge off. Shooting off the back side of a slope would probably help or consulting a chiropractor that's involved in the shooting sports.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Logged in just to upvote you. I haven't posted on this site in months. Perfect post.

But while I am here...yes, people put elbow pads under their elbows, and it is for placement consistency I am sure. So they ARE shooting aids IMO. My shooting mat is padded, but uniformly. Yes it aids comfort.

If you went to nationals with a crafted body pad which held you in position, I think you'd get told to knock it off.

Good point. Despite my attempt at humor, I tend to hope that local matches work hard to be inclusive for shooters in ways that the national matches may not be able to. It's odd how so many folks trumpet the need to attract more people to the sport, but then advocate for new rules and rigid interpretations that drive people away. One should not have to jump through national level approvals for the accommodations of disabilities to compete at the local level.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

I can see where a foam / support wedge would be considered an unfair advantage when using a sling in a prone position. Using the same support when the rifle is fully supported with a rest / bag would be much less advantageous. I certainly wouldn't DQ a shooter at a local match because of back pain, I'd let them do what they need to do. Perhaps running the overall height of the rifle and rest setup higher or lower would help take the edge off. Shooting off the back side of a slope would probably help or consulting a chiropractor that's involved in the shooting sports.

Good points. Lower overall height and a sloped shooting line both make shooting prone much more comfortable for me and others I know with back issues. Sometimes, the front rest in F-Open can get really high, requiring not only a tall rear rest, but also a less comfortable shooting position.

We should remember that F-Open may be shot from a bipod or a simpler (and lower) front rest such as a front bag, rolled up towel, etc. The total height of some of the fancier front rests may be contributing to the back problem.

 

[dcali]

Another note - rear bags are made in multiple heights - not everyone knows that. I primarily use a very low Edgewood minigater, which is something like 2.5" tall. You have to order it straight from Edgewood - the big retailers don't stock the odd options. Combined with the heavy triangular sinclair benchrest, which is a pretty low front rest, and I don't find myself doing the acrobatics that I see a lot of guys doing with tall rests and bags. My back just doesn't bend that way.