Flyers

[Dusty Stevens]

They are 105 berger vld hunting bullets. But yes i agree with the barrel change

Whats the twist rate on that rig?

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

When I'm shooting well, sight picture is quiet and the shot breaks surprising me. With an accurate rifle I know when a round will be off the group. With a new to me rifle if the sight picture and trigger break is right,rounds that open up the group tell me there is a problem.

 

[Chrissb18]

Whats the twist rate on that rig?

1-7.7 i think

 

[Chrissb18]

When I see groups like that, my first question is "Are you shooting off a Harris bipod and a $15 lumpy rear bag?" It is almost pointless to expect "flyerless" groups with that kind of set-up, though I know a very few marksmen who can do it (albeit with custom barrel and stock).

Second question is "Are you shooting a factory barrel?" For reasons that cannot always be explained (perhaps lack of stress relief), I commonly see these kind of groups with factory barrels. Often, with a bedding job and a custom Krieger, Brux, Bartein etc. you will see a significant improvement in both average group size and consistency.

If, however, the OP is shooting from a crappy front/rear support set-up on a wobbly wooden bench, this is to be expected.

OP Quote: "Caldwell tack driver up front....cheap little walmart one under butt stock...on a cable spool". That Caldwell is a big X-type sandbag, but overall, yes, this is a crappy support setup.

And if you're shooting that Ruger American Predator, factory stock and factory barrel, don't waste one more second analyzing your group. It is pointless.

Though I won't rule out "driver error", you honestly can't expect much more than this from a Sub-$400 factory Ruger rifle.

RugerAmerican Predator 6mm Creedmoor $389.99:
https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/191746

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The bag looks like a 1.5 foot long "H" i assumed would have been a good rest...what would you recommend? It does seem like it only sits on a small portion of it

 

[Ccrider]

Whats the twist rate on that rig?

The shooter looks like about .5 moa. Not sure about the barrel.

 

[fyrewall]

Ruger specs have a 1-7.7 twist for the American Predator in 6mm Creedmore and Berger specs have a minimum 1-8 twist for their 6mm 105 VLD hunting bullet - if that is true, speculation on bullet twist rate should end. Go for the round robin (bird?) stuff and see what happens with the flyer. All sorts of stuff may be happening. Measuring center to center, the best 4 shot group is well under .5 inches. The barrel appears to be on the heavy side and is threaded. There is this barrel break in stuff; clean up the insides well and don't let things get too hot. This is not a match grade rifle but is of high quality and well designed for small targets at extended ranges. Should you spend $1.5 thou admiration and approval from others might happen but the results would not be 4 times better.

 

[dellet]

If the first shot is a Flyer its because I was anticipating a good group and choked under my own pressure. With a first round flyer, the pressure is off on the remaining shots.

With a last round flyer it’s because I’ve already decided it will be a perfect group and either lose concentration or pull a muscle patting myself on the back. Either way I screw up the group.

I would shoot a 10-20 round group, single shot style. That would do two things.

Eliminate shots 6, 11, 16 as first round panic, and also eliminate some sort of a feed issue if you are shooting five from a full magazine.

Barrel maybe cooling enough between magazine loading.

 

[Chrissb18]

If the first shot is a Flyer its because I was anticipating a good group and choked under my own pressure. With a first round flyer, the pressure is off on the remaining shots.

With a last round flyer it’s because I’ve already decided it will be a perfect group and either lose concentration or pull a muscle patting myself on the back. Either way I screw up the group.

I would shoot a 10-20 round group, single shot style. That would do two things.

Eliminate shots 6, 11, 16 as first round panic, and also eliminate some sort of a feed issue if you are shooting five from a full magazine.

Barrel maybe cooling enough between magazine loading.

Obviously i cant shoot 10-20 in a row with a 6 creed....should cool down time affect groups like the flyers i am getting? Since it is a hunting rifle should i be grouping on a cold barrel each shot or is a warm barrel going to have little change?

 

[dellet]

No reason you can’t shoot more than 5 in a string, space between the shots longer.

Mostly just break your current shooting pattern.

Cold bore shots often impact outside a group.

Shoot/practice the target the same way you will shoot for real.

For hunting that might be one shot per 30 min to always have a old bore shot or one shot a day.

Customer who was SWAT sniper type. Stopped every day possible to or from work at the range. One shot and on his way. Don’t know if it ever paid off on the job, but it made perfect sense for practice and I adapted that to bow hunting and any other training for one shot pay offs.

Kinda like a machine gun, the only shot that goes where you point it is the first one, make it count.

 

[RGRobinett]

I shot 3 5 shot groups this morning with my american predator in 6mm creedmoor. Every group the first shot is a flyer. Im sure this has been covered before but im just wondering if its an operator error or if it could be something else. The center group were my fouling shots

You did not tell us what scope you are using - doe it have parallax adjustment? It could be partly, or, even mostly, a parallax issue, and you are not "settlled" into position on the initial shot, after which, you get comfortably and more consistently "centered" behind the scope. Have you checked to determine if/how much parallax there is at 100Yd.? RG

 

[Chrissb18]

You did not tell us what scope you are using - doe it have parallax adjustment? It could be partly, or, even mostly, a parallax issue, and you are not "settlled" into position on the initial shot, after which, you get comfortably and more consistently "centered" behind the scope. Have you checked to determine if/how much parallax there is at 100Yd.? RG

Its a diamondback tactical 4x12 no parallax adjustment

 

[RGRobinett]

Its a diamondback tactical 4x12 no parallax adjustment

Most fixed parallax scopes are set parallax free at 150 Yd., which will show up as roughly 1/2" at 100 Yd. - I have seen up to about 1". Parallax could very well be part of the problem, connected to your positioning behind that first shot. Despite the cheap rifle, with odds stacked against 1/2-5/8ths MOA, your last four seem too consistent to shoot the first shot of every group that far out, and, also consistently (3 out of four) to about the same location.

That said, I have observed several factory barrels which shot the initial cold/clean shot a LONG way from any follow-up shots. Still, check the amount of parallax: set the rig up solidly, and move your head/eye around, and observe how much the reticle moves across the target - the amount of movement will be equal to the maximum potential misalignment. You are probably only experiencing a portion of the full potential. To settle this possibility, you can limit parallax error by MacGyvering a peep-sight over the ocular lens (make the hole small), which will demand more consistent eye/reticle/target alignment. RG

 

[fyrewall]

Vortex specs have a 100 yard parallax adjustment for the subject scope - should this be correct any parallax introduced error should be zippo. It appears like this problem discussion inevitably returns to a determination of the quality of the subject rifle - like "cheap". What I see is essentially a series of good groups except some excursions (flyers) that could be caused by a huge variety of factors. Rifle twist rate and bullet have been touched upon and should be rejected as a cause. The scope parallax is easily checked out by a moving eyeball test at the 100 yard target - does the reticle move? Will we have a discussion of "cheap" scopes next? Rifle positioning could be a factor allowing lapses in bullet direction every 5 rounds (fatigue or attention deficits after every 4 rounds). I see some real good accuracy potential, like 4 in one hole and others close to that. I stand by my suggestion of performing the round robin (bird?) stuff with 5 targets each getting a consecutive bullet - will target 5 look horrible for some reason?. Clean up everything real good, keep cool, and shoot again.