Flutes on my cases?

[hoz53]

You can see the lines going the length of these cases. A person mite think they were fired in an HK fluted chamber, though HK fired brass i have seen is not like this, but no they were fired in a chamber i cut a while back. there are lines the length of the chamber like this to. Ive posted about this before - my question now is how can the lenthwise groves be cut in the chamber when the reamer only goes radially. or mabie they are somehow cut when i remove the reamer to clean chips and push it back in getting ready for the next pass. for what it is the rifle seems to shoot good. Thanks

 

[Will Henry]

The reamer chattered. Out of curiosity, what barrel, what reamer? WH

 

[hoz53]

The reamer chattered. Out of curiosity, what barrel, what reamer? WH

223 Wylde---this happened in a couple different barrels. They arent 5Rs for sure. A remington barrel and a GM. Both cheap barrels I know. Would a "better" barrel make a differance? Doesnt seem to me like it would but I am the beginer so what do i know. At first i couldnt wrap my head around how chatter could make the lengthwise grooves but now i think i got it. I wonder if the smaller diameter case is more suseptable to this? Got a new barrel to try this reamer in and if it still get this I will have to try the wax paper or something. Thanks Much

 

[Ggmac]

Ive had a similar chamber problem long ago when using a hammer forged barrel . I attributed it to different hardness of the hammerforging process while pressing in the rifling . I thought it would change the hardness according to either a land or groove . Mine showed grooves , small but noticeable, gradually getting wider the larger in dia. of the case .
Its was just a wild guess . Never had it happen since , even on hammer forged barrels .

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Will the fired brass chamber properly without sizing?

 

[akajun]

Something is chattering, check your setup, tailstock, chuck/ barrel holding fixture , don’t leave too much hanging out.
Next check your pilot diameter,
Last have the reamer re ground

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Almost certainly reamer chatter.
Wax paper trick can help and a tighter fitting pilot bushing as well..but once it starts, it can be hard to stop.
I've seen it several times and it usually can be traced back to the reamer geometry.

 

[DaveTooley]

Wax paper has always worked for me unless the reamer was totally screwed up.
I guess I'm curious why you didn't notice it when chambering the barrel.

 

[Spotshooter]

IMHO - The Ramp on 5R lands makes the reamer push into the opposite side (notice i didn’t say “can” push... it does it.) reamers chatter by them cutting into the opposite side of the chamber.

Unfortunately it’s not all that easy to detect so it can go unchecked, and if the reamer chatters a long time you get sharp cuts into the throat, neck, and chamber like that.

Personally I don’t like 5R because of this... and I’ve seen some very highly regarded folks say the chatter cut lines are “normal”....

 

[Will Henry]

It was stated that these were not 5R barrels but that is why I asked. It appears to be common chatter and a fairly mild case.. Usually, the cause is one of three things: loose or flexy set-up, too little feed, and reamer geometry. Reamers which have been ground without staggered flutes and with cutting edges on center are more likely to chatter. The method of holding or driving the reamer can exacerbate chatter. An undersized pilot,ditto.
If caught early enough in the job, wrapping the reamer in waxed paper, paper towel, or cloth will usually work. Filling the flutes with plasticene or heavy grease is also usually effective.
If a chamber shows evidence of mild chatter, like this one, fl sizing will be necessary but, apart from this, it probably won't have much detrimental effect. WH

 

[Spotshooter]

Ha... I missed the “NT” past are.. (aren’t)

Anymore I look for 5R and apparently skip reading the rest... my bad

 

[hoz53]

Ive had a similar chamber problem long ago when using a hammer forged barrel . I attributed it to different hardness of the hammerforging process while pressing in the rifling . I thought it would change the hardness according to either a land or groove . Mine showed grooves , small but noticeable, gradually getting wider the larger in dia. of the case .
Its was just a wild guess . Never had it happen since , even on hammer forged barrels .

I wondered if barrel steel might be it but ive had it in more than one barrel so I dont think so this time. this remington barrel mite be hammer forged though? Thanks Much

 

[hoz53]

Will the fired brass chamber properly without sizing?

I will have to get back to you on that but I will check-- Thank you.

 

[hoz53]

Something is chattering, check your setup, tailstock, chuck/ barrel holding fixture , don’t leave too much hanging out.
Next check your pilot diameter,
Last have the reamer re ground

Thats alot of good info. I think my setup is pretty solid. I havent had this on other calibers either. I will double check though. I use a floating reamer holder though so that would allow this to happen right? Dont think i will switch to a fixed setup though. The reamer only has mabie 4 chambers on it, but I could have done something to it to dull it. I think the reamer bushing is suspect. I will check this out. Thank You

 

[hoz53]

Almost certainly reamer chatter.
Wax paper trick can help and a tighter fitting pilot bushing as well..but once it starts, it can be hard to stop.
I've seen it several times and it usually can be traced back to the reamer geometry.

Hi Mike-- Ok i learned a little more here. I will check the pilot bushing next
The reamer geometry is good to know about. I have wondered if its something about the reamer. I may get to the point of calling the manufacturer and see what they say. Thanks

 

[hoz53]

Wax paper has always worked for me unless the reamer was totally screwed up.
I guess I'm curious why you didn't notice it when chambering the barrel.

Well Ill try a few other things and if they dont work, ill try the wax paper. I did notice this when i chambered, and even cut one off and redid it. They were experiments so i went ahead and finished them up and fit them to the actions. One of them was an AR 15 barrel I wanted to see if I could make from an old remington varmint barrel. I had to adjust the gasport, but it shoots ok even with the flutes. Thank You Dave

 

[hoz53]

Ha... I missed the “NT” past are.. (aren’t)

Anymore I look for 5R and apparently skip reading the rest... my bad

That was good info for me on the 5Rs though. I just do this stuff for myself and avoid 5R barrels so far for the reasons you stated. Thank You

 

[hoz53]

It was stated that these were not 5R barrels but that is why I asked. It appears to be common chatter and a fairly mild case.. Usually, the cause is one of three things: loose or flexy set-up, too little feed, and reamer geometry. Reamers which have been ground without staggered flutes and with cutting edges on center are more likely to chatter. The method of holding or driving the reamer can exacerbate chatter. An undersized pilot,ditto.
If caught early enough in the job, wrapping the reamer in waxed paper, paper towel, or cloth will usually work. Filling the flutes with plasticene or heavy grease is also usually effective.
If a chamber shows evidence of mild chatter, like this one, fl sizing will be necessary but, apart from this, it probably won't have much detrimental effect. WH

Alot of great info here and it gives me some things to figure out. The part about how reamers are ground, I need to understand better. I will go look over the reamers find out more about this. Thank You

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

The 5r, a loose fitting pilot and reamer geometry can all play a part in chatter. Wax paper, IME, works if you catch it in time but if you keep going in, hoping the chatter stops...You're not likely to be happy.

IME, you will have to re chamber to get rid of your chatter. The good thing is, you have options since it's a small bolt face cartridge that has the problem. The bad part is that you already have a chamber and no bushing support. Still, I'd bet on it cleaning up without a problem with a different reamer in a larger cartridge.

Flute spacing, shoulder angle and pilot fit..are just some of the potential causes of chatter.

I've seen 5 groove bbls cut very well while others have what appears to be peaks and valleys in the throat area. That looks ugly but they still shoot like that. Mostly, it just doesn't look like we accept as what it SHOULD look like. Well, who determines that, if they both shoot?

I'd rather chamber a 4 groove and not have to worry about it. What has been said previously is true..that the bushing pushes off to one side as the reamer cuts a land when there is not a land directly opposing it.

 

[Will Henry]

A reamer is usually ground with the flutes staggered slightly with all cutting edges ahead of center. So, flute no.1 might be .002 AOC with the other flutes at .004, .006, .004, .002 .004. with the flutes spaced at 60 degree intervals. An alternative might place all flutes at .002 ahead of center but spacing them at 0, 60-30minutes, 120-15, 180-45, 240. 300-30 and so on. The idea is the no two cutting edges are directly opposite another.
Beyond this, the clearance on each cutting edge can be too great and lead to chatter. There others much more knowledgeable than I and they will be able to correct any misstatement I may have made. WH