flame temp list?

[clowdis]

OK, resurrecting an old thread here that had deteriorated into a pi$$ing contest, but I would like to know if anybody might have some idea of the flame temperature of the new Enduron powders as they relate to the older Hodgdon powders? I know people tell me that they get a lot more barrel life out of VV 140/150 powders than they do with Varget in .308 Palma loads. I seem to have gotten really short barrel life with Enduron 4166 although it's a very accurate powder and I was just curious if this could be a powder issue or something else.

 

[Rtheurer]

Do you have Quick Load? Its on there.

 

[TAJ45]

This does not answer the question(s) posted but it will help w the problem of bbl life: Extend the neck or sharpen the shoulder, or both to move the convergence point* away from the throat.

*Convergence point is the locus where the extended shoulder angle intersects.

 

[clowdis]

Do you have Quick Load? Its on there.

Russ,
There is a Quickload chart on page 1 but I was wondering if it had been updated to include the Enduron powders, 4166 in particular. Do you have Quickload?

 

[clowdis]

This does not answer the question(s) posted but it will help w the problem of bbl life: Extend the neck or sharpen the shoulder, or both to move the convergence point* away from the throat.

*Convergence point is the locus where the extended shoulder angle intersects.

Unfortunately in Palma we have to use the standard .308 chamber, no modifications. I do have a 6mm SLR that just crossed 1400 rounds last weekend and is still hammering! The SLR is a .243 that has the shoulder angle increased and the neck lengthened in order to better hold the 115 bullet.

 

[Webster]

thanks Mike and damon. a little thermodynamics refresher was in order. looks like some other posters could use it too.

In a month or two I'll try to conduct some tests and measure the heat of some powders on opposite ends of that list. if the results are interesting, i'll post them

thanks again

Explain how you measure heat at home in an event that takes place in 1.2 milla seconds with no known standards to creat the conditions under which burning takes place. Measuring heat shouldn't be as important as temperature as far as barrel erosion. It's easy to determine relative barrel life wt. of powder vs bore diameter. do you want to determine how many calories burning a given amount of powder has, this should be a number unrelated to firing a rifle. I think this kind of work has been done. We have calorimeters where I worked. I know you think I am trying to be a smart ass but I don't understand what you do with the final result. I assume you want to measure heat without any correlation to accuracy or barrel life. Hot gas erosion is related to the temperature, volume and speed of the hot gases going down the barrel.

 

[dcali]

You can get a rough idea of how hard a powder is on a barrel by looking a the "heat of explosion" which is included in QuickLOAD. I don't know what powders are listed in the current version. There's a lot more to it than that, but it's a starting point.

 

[oldduc]

Explain how you measure heat at home in an event that takes place in 1.2 milla seconds with no known standards to creat the conditions under which burning takes place. Measuring heat shouldn't be as important as temperature as far as barrel erosion. It's easy to determine relative barrel life wt. of powder vs bore diameter. do you want to determine how many calories burning a given amount of powder has, this should be a number unrelated to firing a rifle. I think this kind of work has been done. We have calorimeters where I worked. I know you think I am trying to be a smart ass but I don't understand what you do with the final result. I assume you want to measure heat without any correlation to accuracy or barrel life. Hot gas erosion is related to the temperature, volume and speed of the hot gases going down the barrel.

Your 45 year corporate employer must have had you researching obfuscation and developing stone walls!

 

[Tuxedo007]

I think what you're after is more precisely called "adiabatic flame temperature", which is just a property of the propellant, not to be confused with the actual temperature of the gas during combustion. I don't know if that's what QuickLOAD includes in their database, as I haven't really looked into it. But it might be.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any list besides what's in quickLOAD. Do post a link if you find one, though - I'd be interested in seeing it.

Edit: It looks like that list from QuickLOAD is actually the "heat of explosion" which is another thing entirely.

Seems like we've gotten out of the weeds completely & are approaching fairly substantial young trees in our quest!!

 

[Tuxedo007]

We are not trying to shoot better groups. We are trying to learn about propellant flame temperatures.

Why??

 

[dcali]

Why??

Why not?

You learn a thing or two along the way when you study these topics in detail. I’ve been reading up on interior ballistics since this thread first popped up. It’s shed quite a bit of light on how all this stuff works and which parts of the puzzle need attention for whatever purpose you might be interested in. And some of it is just academic interest. I like to know how things work. I want to know how much I can trust quickLoad, for example. I suppose all of that indirectly relates to better shooting but I’d do it even if it didn’t.

 

[clowdis]

Why??

And I'd like to know why some powders burn my barrels out faster than similar powders in the same caliber.

 

[RAD57]

i don't know but offhand, i would say it's the other way around, no? I mean, since i'm burning something to create pressure, instead of squeezing something to create temp? so both the temp and burn rate would seem relevant and together would be used to calc peak pressure.


biged, i have heard that repeated a few times on the internet but what little data i've seen seems to contradict it. i'm trying to figure out if it is an old wives' tale or not. i'm leaning towards "is"

thanks mike, someone on another forum posted a list of the index from quickload.

 

[RAD57]

Is there a newer list with the IMR Enduron powders listing "Heat of Explosion"?