FL sizing die shaving base of case and inconsistent headspace

[Mike Casselton]

Before you start with any other loads, your brass may not be usable anymore...

If you want to see how far you are likely overpressure, take a look at the Peterson 22 Creed load data for H4350. They suggest a max of 36.9 gr with the 80.5 VLD. Hornady is similar at 37.7 gr with the 80 ELDM. Your load is 4-5 grains over that, with a heavier bullet! That is potentially 75-80k+ psi!

If he's blowing out the primer pockets, he's well past 80ksi.

 

[Texas Solo]

That's completely false.

Used properly it's a good as any other lube made.

Opinions vary.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Opinions vary.

They do.
Individuals also vary their use of the product. Some use it correctly, some don't.

 

[Texas Solo]

They do.
Individuals also vary their use of the product. Some use it correctly, some don't.

LOL. Nice try.

 

[Mike Casselton]

LOL. Nice try.

It's pretty simple. You don't like the stuff. I get it.
I've never had a problem with using it since the product hit the market. I continue to use it for any bulk reloading. If I'm doing 20 or less, I'll use Imperial.
Both work and they both work well if used properly.
I can't control how you use it. If I could, it would work for you too.

 

[DirtDigger]

Well guys, thanks for not flaming me too hard.

I'll back off the load a bunch and look at my lower node to see where that takes me. I did read a couple books, I also read all 25 pages of the Snipershide 22 Creedmoor thread and saw guys all over the map with H4350 loads. I did like everyone suggests and used the book as a base line and looked to see what my rifle liked. Maybe have went a bit too far, so I will back off on my h4350 load and I've got some loaded up with VV560 to try next. I'll pull the bullets on the ammo I have loaded up at this load.

After more reading, and this thread, I do think the combination of alpha brass and Short Action Customs die size might be part of the brass shaving issue. I've sized 22 creed peterson, 22 creed hornady, 6 creed hornady, and 6 creed lapua with the same modular sizing die with no issue. I've got 300 more pieces of virgin alpha 22 creed brass to run through the sizing die before I load it and will see if I have any shaving issues with the virgin brass.

Thanks for all the positive and delta feedback.

 

[Fast14riot]

Well guys, thanks for not flaming me too hard.

I'll back off the load a bunch and look at my lower node to see where that takes me. I did read a couple books, I also read all 25 pages of the Snipershide 22 Creedmoor thread and saw guys all over the map with H4350 loads. I did like everyone suggests and used the book as a base line and looked to see what my rifle liked. Maybe have went a bit too far, so I will back off on my h4350 load and I've got some loaded up with VV560 to try next. I'll pull the bullets on the ammo I have loaded up at this load.

After more reading, and this thread, I do think the combination of alpha brass and Short Action Customs die size might be part of the brass shaving issue. I've sized 22 creed peterson, 22 creed hornady, 6 creed hornady, and 6 creed lapua with the same modular sizing die with no issue. I've got 300 more pieces of virgin alpha 22 creed brass to run through the sizing die before I load it and will see if I have any shaving issues with the virgin brass.

Thanks for all the positive and delta feedback.

The over pressured brass will do that regardless of brand and in any die. You have extreme case head expansion from loads approaching 90Kpsi. I just found an old piece of Lapua 6br brass in my pile that did the same thing in a Redding and harrels die. It got scrapped. I tried to save it for a dummy round, but it won't even chamber easily.

Which brings up my next point, check your brass in your chamber. That is the definitive gauge to use.

 

[mic2377]

Well guys, thanks for not flaming me too hard.

I'll back off the load a bunch and look at my lower node to see where that takes me. I did read a couple books, I also read all 25 pages of the Snipershide 22 Creedmoor thread and saw guys all over the map with H4350 loads. I did like everyone suggests and used the book as a base line and looked to see what my rifle liked. Maybe have went a bit too far, so I will back off on my h4350 load and I've got some loaded up with VV560 to try next. I'll pull the bullets on the ammo I have loaded up at this load.

After more reading, and this thread, I do think the combination of alpha brass and Short Action Customs die size might be part of the brass shaving issue. I've sized 22 creed peterson, 22 creed hornady, 6 creed hornady, and 6 creed lapua with the same modular sizing die with no issue. I've got 300 more pieces of virgin alpha 22 creed brass to run through the sizing die before I load it and will see if I have any shaving issues with the virgin brass.

Thanks for all the positive and delta feedback.

Give the N560 a shot. You will probably be able to achieve a velocity closer to your target velocity with H4350, but without self-decapping brass haha.

I am also on Snipers Hide. All I can say is that there are book loads, Accurate Shooter forum loads, and then Snipers Hide loads... Not sure some of the data at SH is realistic.

 

[DirtDigger]

Give the N560 a shot. You will probably be able to achieve a velocity closer to your target velocity with H4350, but without self-decapping brass haha.

I am also on Snipers Hide. All I can say is that there are book loads, Accurate Shooter forum loads, and then Snipers Hide loads... Not sure some of the data at SH is realistic.

Well I tried N560 and had good results. Shot 11 3 shot groups and only had one that went over and inch (pulled last shot), with a few less than half inch so I'm happy. No primer flattening or cratering at all. Stayed within book max from a few sources. The speed isn't there, but it's fast enough for a 18" coyote gun. I think I'll settle somewhere between 42.5 and 43.5 grains of N560 as 43.4 netted me 3081 avg with 2.2 sd and 5 es, but grouping was better near 42.5. I'll see where the best blend of group and SD get me.

Now I've got a couple questions: My best 2 groups size wise were my worst groups SD wise. Is that normal, or is my Garmin chrono giving me issues once in a while? I had 41.9 gr shoot a 0.288" group with a SD of 25.9 and a ES of 58. Also had 43.1 gr go into 0.472" with a SD of 23.2 and a ES of 55. My SD's where kind of all over the place with only two groups in the single digits, most between 10 and 14, and two groups above 23 (best grouping). I do wonder if my messed up brass is giving me issues with SD as all load development with H4350 gave me low single digit SD's with 4-5 shot groups, and high single digits SD's on 10 shot groups. I'll probably try some virgin brass again and see if SD's calm down.

Also about the topic of my brass that I shot way over pressure. Now I have no issue tossing it and calling it a learning experience (education is expensive), but I do have some measurements and questions for you guys. My new Alpha brass measures 0.4675" at the 200 line with a Mitutoyo caliper. My twice fired (once way too hot, then resized, then fired at safe pressure) brass measures 0.475" after the second firing, and I measured some of the once fired (too hot), but resized measures at 0.470". What does normal growth at the 200 line look like?

 

[mic2377]

I think your speed is fine... I see somewhere around 3250 or so from my 24" barrel with a 1.5 gr less than max load of N560 with the 80 ELDX. With an 18" barrel you are probably loosing ~160 fps compared to what I am seeing, so you are right on the numbers.

My best ES/SD was near higher loads. I did find there to be a bit of temp sensitivity but that was comparing 35 degrees to 90+ degrees, so that isn't unreasonable.

I think your SD's will calm down with a new lot of brass once it is once fired and formed to your chamber.

I dont have sophisticated enough measuring tools to have measured case head expansion myself or comment on what is acceptable.