First shot accuracy

[potatoe]

I have a new dasher that is shooting pretty darn good. Today my first shot was though was about 3" to the right then it followed it up by some pretty impressive groups, one was a .09 but I'm very concerned with the first shot being off that far. I did clean the barrel a good bit last weekend and I think I did run kroil through it at the end but I can't really see that messing with it that much. Anyone ever have the first shot that far off?

 

[savageshooter86]

cold clean bore? My 308 rifle shoots about 1.5-2" right on the first shot and clean bore. My buddy's 6BR shot about 5" low at 800 on a cold clean bore. I think this is what you are seeing. Do you have any record of it shooting differently on the CCB? If you did then it may be something but if not I would see if it repeats this on the next time out. Then you will know how many fouling shots it takes to bring the shots back

 

[potatoe]

Thanks for the reply savage. I did my first range work up last week with different powders/bullets and would give it a typical range cleaning but over the weekend I did more in depth cleaning so to answer your question this was the first shot with the heavy clean cold bore, but the range cleaning was not ever off by much.

 

[savageshooter86]

I did my first range work up last week with different powders/bullets

So was this issue with that load from last weekend or new powder and bullets this time? That could be why if you used different components this time from your last range trip

 

[potatoe]

No, same components but by the time I got onto this load I had shot some others and just did a few wet patches when I switched to this powder so it did get shot on a semi clean bore (it didn't shoot way off on the first shot) but not a scrubbed clean bore also I think I used kroil at the cleaning which I did not patch out before heading to the range this afternoon

 

[K22]

The only rifle / caliber that I've had significant first shot flyers issues with was a CZ American in 22 long rifle and this was from a fouled barrel which isn't suppose to happen. After spending many hours and various "fixes" with mixed results I got rid of the rifle out of frustration.

None of my center fire rifles, except one, exhibit flyers from eiyjrt a clean or fouled barrel first shot. The that does exhibit flyers in from a clean barrel. I'm at a loss to explain why the one does it when my 12 other center fire rifles do not.

 

[Immike]

I have a new dasher that is shooting pretty darn good. Today my first shot was though was about 3" to the right then it followed it up by some pretty impressive groups, one was a .09 but I'm very concerned with the first shot being off that far. I did clean the barrel a good bit last weekend and I think I did run kroil through it at the end but I can't really see that messing with it that much. Anyone ever have the first shot that far off?

There is alot of pressure blow by with a clean bore. Most just shoot low but a few choose a different direction. Oil in the bore will create a added resistance and should be wiped out with a dry patch prior. I have been told that enough oil will cause a oil lock and stop the bullet. That warning makes me worry so I wipe the bore of excess oil.
I believe they had a similar problem with moly grease and a few barrels blew up.

 

[LHSmith]

Kroil has been known to cause first few shot flyers....try a lightly coated Butches Bore Oiled ptach (or another oil specifically used for firearms- NOT Rem-Oil or any oil with teflon!) at final clean and before firing that first shot ...run a loose fitting clean patch through the bore. Some swear by Kroil as a barrel conditioner....others swear at it.

 

[polebilly]

I must be the odd man out. From a clean bore every rifle I have will shoot away from the point of aim. In most cases it takes only one or two rounds to recondition the barrel. Now I'm not talking a foot off at 100 yards but it would be useless for me to try to shoot a group with a clean barrel. Just my personal experience.

 

[bigedp51]

The barrel vibrates like a tuning fork, you "tune" your ammunition to release the bullet at the same point of vibration/movement of the barrel.

Any type oil in the bore and chamber will change the way the barrel vibrates from the "tuned" point of your load testing. Oil in the bore/chamber, no copper in the bore, sizing lube on your cases etc. will all change the way the barrel vibrates.



We over clean our barrels and then wonder why a scrubbed cleaned, copper free barrel with oil residue in the bore doesn't hit the exact same place when it was dirty.

Below a new custom, hand lapped barrel.



A Savage button rifled barrel before and after fire lapping, please note the "clean" bore in top photo and the copper in the bottom photo.




Closeup bore scope photo of new button rifled barrel.



Guess "how" dirty the bore above would need to be to be "conditioned" and shoot uniformly and accurately. "AND" how much jacket material was missing from the bullet after the first shot in this barrel.

 

[amlevin]

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Guess "how" dirty the bore above would need to be to be "conditioned" and shoot uniformly and accurately. "AND" how much jacket material was missing from the bullet after the first shot in this barrel.

This looks like a job for "Snipe-X" 8)

I that a rifled bore or an internally threaded bore

 

[M-61]

Going back many decades it has been the same......wipe the barrel dry before shooting. Excessive oil in the barrel can lead to a catastrophe, as can any obstruction.
As for the 1st shot thru a clean barrel......I pick out a spot on a dirt mound and shoot at that....never bothered to see where the first round went into a target......then again I no longer hunt. One thing is for sure....on a given day that first shot is the only one travelling down a clean bore.....which makes it different than each successive shot.
Do hunters bother with a 'fouling shot'? Just a thought.

 

[mikecr]

I'm a varmint hunter and I count on the first shot like any other cold bore shot to follow.
I manage this with dry WS2 prefouling & cold bore load development prior to any hunting.

It is(or should be) well known that ANY oil left in the bore takes multiple shots to burn out, and for fouling to reach stable. It's also known that cold bore shots produce lower velocity.

 

[madderg]

I use HBN on my bullets and bore and all shots go where it's pointing.

 

[CPorter]

There is a theory that I subscribe to as do several competitive shooters that frequent the boards. Anyway clean the gun as usual then if shooting unlubricated bullets use Lock-ease or some other oil/graphite mixture to condition the barrel for the first shot. With lubed bullets use a mixture of the lubricant and a light oil. Patch the barrel before shooting to remove excess oil..
My factory rifles shot high left cold bore and the four I do this on shoot the first round much closer to the spot the rest of the shots will end up, usually just touching the outside of the main group radius

 

[bigedp51]

There is a theory that I subscribe to as do several competitive shooters that frequent the boards. Anyway clean the gun as usual then if shooting unlubricated bullets use Lock-ease or some other oil/graphite mixture to condition the barrel for the first shot. With lubed bullets use a mixture of the lubricant and a light oil. Patch the barrel before shooting to remove excess oil..
My factory rifles shot high left cold bore and the four I do this on shoot the first round much closer to the spot the rest of the shots will end up, usually just touching the outside of the main group radius

Lock-Ease is graphite suspended in a evaporative fluid, it does "NOT" contain any oil or will it leave oil in the bore. I store my rifles butt down in a gun cabinet, any Hoppes or gun oil will flow/creep into the chamber and increase bolt thrust.

I "DO NOT" subscribe to internet theories, ALL oil or grease should be removed from the chamber and bore BEFORE shooting.

"Lock-Ease makes locks work easier year-round. Prevents sticking, guards against rust and wear. Helps seal out moisture from working parts, providing maximum protection against freezing. Enters as a rapid penetrant coating all lock parts. The special “carrier” then evaporates, leaving a graphited long-wearing film"

 

[mikecr]

That's another good reason to dry & dry prefoul before putting a gun away.

 

[savageshooter86]

I use Montana Bore Conditioner after cleaning. I don't put a ton on a patch to begin with and I do not have any issues. M. E. says to do that after cleaning and don't wipe it out that it acts to help with first shot accuracy.

 

[searcher]

I believe everyone has the "fouling shot" covered. The first bullet out of a clean bore can get waaaay out there with some rifles. Mine shoots an inch and a half high every time.

It never hurts to look at the unexpected too. If your cases are still in order in your ammo carrier, pull the first case out and check length of the case. An excessively long case can, as we know, cause high pressure spikes when the case mouth is jambed into the side of the bullet when forced into the chamber. Longshot for sure, and the odds are against this as it occured on the first shot. Still never hurts to check or you will have a recurring flyer with that piece of brass and it will only get worse as it becomes fired again and again unless checked. If this was the first shot fired from the new barrel - the first bullet or two literally "iron" down and blow out rough areas from tooling marks in the throat and bore. That alone on the first shot could have caused the high shot.

 

[Barlow]

I can't remember the source, but I know I read it on a custom barrel mfg site, that after cleaning your barrel, run a patch thru with a light amount of oil on it. Fire it with the film of oil in the barrel. This is what I have been doing for 10 years, and I have never had one problem. The key here is LIGHT covering. Barlow