Fireform with "heavy" bullets...

[BartsBullets]

Well, since this thread is about case forming, not benchrest, I would suggest you start with some basic reading on case forming...

"Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges For Rifles and Handguns" by Ken Howell

Well Paul,

You must be on the wrong thread! This one is Fire forming with heavy bullets For a 30 Major. That's a benchrest cartridge. Maybe you've heard of it.

The only reason I chimed in was because I'm not a fan of fireforming with pistol powder. I've seen a couple of buddies Get hurt.

So help what's your contribution?

 

[XBBR Shooter]

Well Paul,

You must be on the wrong thread! This one is Fire forming with heavy bullets For a 30 Major. That's a benchrest cartridge. Maybe you've heard of it.

The only reason I chimed in was because I'm not a fan of fireforming with pistol powder. I've seen a couple of buddies Get hurt.

So help what's your contribution?

Clearing the air - based on what you say, then forming a PPC is different than forming an AI??? Your kidding.

No matter what the caliber, case forming can be done with the same variety of methods. Yours is no better or no worse than anyone elses.

 

[BartsBullets]

Clearing the air - based on what you say, then forming a PPC is different than forming an AI??? Your kidding.

No matter what the caliber, case forming can be done with the same variety of methods. Yours is no better or no worse than anyone elses.

Do me a favor and go back and READ what I wrote. Then you can you tell me what method I proposed????

 

[fguffey]

ell Paul,

You must be on the wrong thread! This one is Fire forming with heavy bullets For a 30 Major. That's a benchrest cartridge. Maybe you've heard of it.

The only reason I chimed in was because I'm not a fan of fireforming with pistol powder. I've seen a couple of buddies Get hurt.

So help what's your contribution?

BartsBullets. nothing like two standards; if I had used your tone of typing I would have at least 3 members getting all snarky with me.


I form first and then fire. I have no infatuations with fire forming. I chamber a round, I pull the trigger and then I eject a once fired case.


F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

The lubrication business is of interest - I don't have a clue of what pressures will cause a loss of lubricant film strength. I do know that various lubricants are formulated the allow them to be used in applications where they are subject to impact.

Back to slide and glide; I want nothing but air between the case and chamber. When it comes to air I do not want a lot of it but I insist the air between the case and chamber is clean air. There is something about air that allows it to flow, and it can be compressed, I am told it is a fluid.


Then there is lube/oil; lube flows that makes it a fluid but oil (like water) can not be compressed. I do not use a lube/oil on my cases. What ever happens when the trigger is pulled happens fast. I know air between the case and chamber can flow fast enough to get out of the way because high pressure will lock the case to the chamber.


Anyhow: I am the fan of the case locking to the chamber when fired. I understand there is a lot of confusion about the shoulder moving and then there is bumping; for the life of me I can not get my shoulders to move. Bump sounds like an accident, when I bump my shoulders back the case upsets and the diameter of the case increases. For that reason I use a die with a die body to support the case when sizing, and the part no one gets; my shoulders do not move when sizing.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

I do know that various lubricants are formulated the allow them to be used in applications where they are subject to impact .

Factors; it was not that long ago an oil company formulated a lube, to get a grip on the improvements? one would have to understand how lube was developed and why. In the beginning auto manufacturers used axle type grease, for a lack of a better description it was called long fiber grease. It worked on caged ball bearings for wheels. It was thick when cold and thin when hot and the hotter it got the thinner etc.


And that worked for many years until high speed and disc brakes. One of the so called improvements was made from 'marlix' and lithium, it was black with a shock absorbing additive. The additive was lead. Most mechanics packed wheel tapered/coned bearings with their hands. Anyhow, there are factors. There should be a list of factors somewhere around here.


F. Guffey

 

[dmoran]

Anyhow: I am the fan of the case locking to the chamber when fired. I understand there is a lot of confusion about the shoulder moving and then there is bumping; for the life of me I can not get my shoulders to move. Bump sounds like an accident, when I bump my shoulders back the case upsets and the diameter of the case increases. For that reason I use a die with a die body to support the case when sizing, and the part no one gets; my shoulders do not move when sizing.

F. Guffey

 

[BartsBullets]

BartsBullets. nothing like two standards; if I had used your tone of typing I would have at least 3 members getting all snarky with me.


I form first and then fire. I have no infatuations with fire forming. I chamber a round, I pull the trigger and then I eject a once fired case.


F. Guffey

Guffey

I try to stay civil when I post something. However if someone starts to get snarky with me, I snark back.

Brain and I came to a 100% agreement on what he was saying and what I was trying to get across.

Then we have good old XBBR come sliding in out of left field. That obviously hasn't read the entire post and saying crap like he's on another planet.

So for the record, if you ever see where I take a "tone". It's because some else started down that road.


So concerning this post. My input is simply that I am not a fan of Fireforming with pistol powder for any method. Not that it doesn't work but because I've had two shooting buddies, who screwed up, and blew up their guns. I for one have way too much going on reloading wise. So By not having pistol powder Around for fireforming I'm safer and so is my kid!

Bart

 

[fguffey]

So concerning this post. My input is simply. I am not a fan of Fireforming with pistol powder for any method. Not that it doesn't work but because I've had two shooting buddies, who screwed up, and blew up their guns. I for one have way too much going on reloading wise. So By not having pistol powder Around for fireforming I'm safer and so is my kid!

I do not know if you made up that story about friends blowing up their guns and I thought you had a mouth on you. I do know there are members that dish put a lot of trash, problem as always; they can dish it out but they can not take it, I refer to those members as 'Alabama Leg Dogs'.

And then there is insult through innuendo, I own, carry, etc. and hand load, if I had a worry it would be about meeting a forum member that never learned how to act in public; or a forum member that behaved the same way in public as he does on the Internet.

F. Guffey

 

[BartsBullets]

I do not know if you made up that story about friends blowing up their guns and I thought you had a mouth on you. I do know there are members that dish put a lot of trash, problem as always; they can dish it out but they can not take it, I refer to those members as 'Alabama Leg Dogs'.

And then there is insult through innuendo, I own, carry, etc. and hand load, if I had a worry it would be about meeting a forum member that never learned how to act in public; or a forum member that behaved the same way in public as he does on the Internet.

F. Guffey

Oh I do have a mouth on me!

Why would anyone make up a story like that? We were in Charlotte NC the first time I saw it happen.

 

[rifleman700]

I'm forming 30 Major cases from 6.5 Grendell Lapua brass. Process is simple: expand neck, turn necks and then fireform. My 112 gr Bib match bullets are kind of expensive, so I'd like to fireform either with COW (cream of wheat) or cheaper bullets. Here's the rub, I have a bulk lot of old 180 gr Rem Cor-Lokt bullets that I'd like to use. Is that practical? Powder suggestions?

I've used the COW method before. Is Unique OK to use? I'd work up charge, of course. How about sealing the mouth of the case with modelling clay? It can be rolled to about 1/8" thickness on a plate of glass and pressed into the case cookie cutter fashion. Saves wadding up tissue...comments.

Having fireformed a few different Ackleys I have always used heavy for caliber bullets with a medium charge of the fastest powder shown for that bullet weight. 100% results

 

[lawman29]

I'm using WW 296 to fire form my 218 Masburn Bee, no problems so far....

 

[6MMsteve]

 

[Coolhand]

Interesting thread , it has bought back to the front of my mind an incident that occurred 30 years ago.

I had left the Club when it happened, I heard it on the local radio on the 6 hour drive home, ' Man dies at Clay Pigeon Club."
A young guy new to down the line, bought a complete Pacific 366 loader plus powder, shot, wads etc from an old guy that retired from shooting. Over the years this old guy had taken small amounts of powder, left overs from canisters that had a few dregs left and dispensed them all into one container, to what purpose, nobody knows. The container still had a label on it.
The coroner determined from his investigation with assistance from the local Police that this rogue container contained a cocktail most likely dregs of Hi Skor 700X, Red Dot, Blue Dot, Green dot. Several loads were pulled and the tell tale DOTS were evident.
Part of the right side receiver hit the toilet block about 30 meters away. It is most likely that this young guy had used this cocktail, mistaking what was on the label.

I didn't know the guy very well, my wife did, she all but collapsed in the car on the drive home and it took her ages to pick up her O/U again. The guy was 20 years old.

I don't buy second hand powder or ammo even if its labelled, on the odd occasion I have been given hand loaded ammo even if I trust the person who gave it to me, I pull the loads and dump the powder.
A far cry from fire forming ( maybe not so far ) BUT !

regards
Mike.