I going to start shooting F class at my local club, Rem 700 LA(blue printed) German Salazar Chamber .30-06, K&P barrel 1/9 twist I have Factory Nosler Ammo to get me on paper, I have Bullets, brass powder, primers, dies, probably have stuff I won't use! What would be an effective way of loading my first rounds to find what is most accurate without shooting 200 rounds if that's possible? Thanks in advance.
Finding the node, when you don't node?
- Thread starter cmysix
- Start date
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
Pick your powder, bullet and seating depth. Set the OAL "you want" and don't change that till you've found "the spot" where they're all going in the same hole. (or damn close)
Max with your powder choice is ??? Starting charge is what???
I start about 2 to 2.5 grains off of Max. Go up 1/10th at a time. 5 shot groups.
You should get pretty close that way and you'll be popping off a few rounds too.
REMEMBER, change nothing else till you find that sweet spot.
You should find 2 nodes. One high and one lower. Lower gives you wiggle room if it gets hot. I prefer lower, just in case.
FPS? Never checked. Never seen anything/anyone out run one.
You CAN check that later if you must.
Max with your powder choice is ??? Starting charge is what???
I start about 2 to 2.5 grains off of Max. Go up 1/10th at a time. 5 shot groups.
You should get pretty close that way and you'll be popping off a few rounds too.
REMEMBER, change nothing else till you find that sweet spot.
You should find 2 nodes. One high and one lower. Lower gives you wiggle room if it gets hot. I prefer lower, just in case.
FPS? Never checked. Never seen anything/anyone out run one.
You CAN check that later if you must.
22BRGUY
Banned
This might give you some ideas but some of the newer powders might not be listed.
I agree with Mikes idea basically, but as he said start I'd say about 3 grains less than
max and work your way up in 3/10's increments and I only shoot 3 shot groups. As you add powder each time the groups should be printing a little higher each time. I'm looking for a place 2 of the 3 shot groups are almost level horizontally. This to me
indicates that the "sweet spot" for the powder charge is here and that your barrel harmonics like this area. From there you can adjust bullet seating depth and work on the
smaller details. JMHO
Possible Ideas Here; https://web.archive.org/web/20171009175822/http://reloadersnest.com/rifle.asp
I agree with Mikes idea basically, but as he said start I'd say about 3 grains less than
max and work your way up in 3/10's increments and I only shoot 3 shot groups. As you add powder each time the groups should be printing a little higher each time. I'm looking for a place 2 of the 3 shot groups are almost level horizontally. This to me
indicates that the "sweet spot" for the powder charge is here and that your barrel harmonics like this area. From there you can adjust bullet seating depth and work on the
smaller details. JMHO
Possible Ideas Here; https://web.archive.org/web/20171009175822/http://reloadersnest.com/rifle.asp
Cool thread title!
Fast14riot
Gold $$ Contributor
Long post, but lots of info.
Here's how I did my 30-06 without a chronograph because its a pencil barrel thats 26" long and I have only a magneto speed.
Picked my bullet, powder and primer. Loaded all starting .020 off for no other reason than it fit my magazine and seated the bullet reasonably in the neck.
For 30-06 and 180 class bullets, you're likely going to be running H4350 speed powders. I started at 52.5 and ran up to 57gr of powder in 0.5gr increments, 2 rounds for each charge, fired in sequence (low to high 1x, then repeat). The important thing is to fire them at individual bulls arranged in a row horizontally. One bull per charge. That's 20rds. This is a coarse pressure ladder. I knew my lot of H4350 was a bit hot and where I would pressure out, but consult your manuals for an appropriate ladder, feel free to abbreviate the amount of charges tested or reduce the size of each increment. I typically start at 1% steps.
Now look at the vertical dispersion of each charge compared to the one on either side of it. You're looking for 2-3 charge weights in a row that produce a similar or same vertical dispersion from the POA. If they all look the same, shoot at a longer distance, typically no more than 300y for initial ladder testing to reduce environmental influence.
Take those 2-3 charges that shot very flat. Load in the middle of them and do a seating depth test. You could do a Berger style seating depth test, or depending on bullet choice you could find the common jump/jamb distance and start a bit longer than that. I load all rounds to seating depth testing at my longest BTO. I use an arbor press and Wilson seating die at the range to adjust my seating depth. I typically shoot 3 round groups when testing seating, but if you feel the shot and everything was good, but it didn't go where you expected, don't shoot a 3rd round. You can't shoot a group smaller.
Again, look at groups compared to the immediate neighbors to pick the best seating depth. Choose the longest seating depth in that range. Steps are typically in 0.003" increments for seating.
Now, you have a coarse powder node and a fine seating depth node. Now, take your known good seating depth and do a fine powder charge ladder. The reason I do pressure, seating then final charge is simple. First I like to find my max charge with that powder/bullet/primer combo for my lot of materials. By doing seating next, I've eliminated the chance of a poor seating depth hiding the potential of a good powder charge when we do the final, fine powder charge test.
Take your coarse powder charge window, start a little below and go a little above. For a 30-06 I would probably do 0.2gr steps because of the powder volume. I would start 1 step below and go 2 above. Because we know its a good seating depth, we can trust the groups and vertical dispersion we are seeing in this final test. This test should be performed at a longer distance. I like 2 rounds per charge, but if I have a narrow window I'm testing, I will do 3.
The important thing to remember when doing testing like this, do not stop once you shoot that "hummer" group. Keep going. You may just be on the edge of it and it could get better. You won't know if you stop as soon as it looks good. Go until it falls apart. You could have a wide node thats 1gr wide. Testing at distance will also amplify the small variables, making it easier to see.
TL/DR, test methodically and let the target tell you what the gun likes. A chronograph can help once you find your potential final load, but isn't necessary.
Here's how I did my 30-06 without a chronograph because its a pencil barrel thats 26" long and I have only a magneto speed.
Picked my bullet, powder and primer. Loaded all starting .020 off for no other reason than it fit my magazine and seated the bullet reasonably in the neck.
For 30-06 and 180 class bullets, you're likely going to be running H4350 speed powders. I started at 52.5 and ran up to 57gr of powder in 0.5gr increments, 2 rounds for each charge, fired in sequence (low to high 1x, then repeat). The important thing is to fire them at individual bulls arranged in a row horizontally. One bull per charge. That's 20rds. This is a coarse pressure ladder. I knew my lot of H4350 was a bit hot and where I would pressure out, but consult your manuals for an appropriate ladder, feel free to abbreviate the amount of charges tested or reduce the size of each increment. I typically start at 1% steps.
Now look at the vertical dispersion of each charge compared to the one on either side of it. You're looking for 2-3 charge weights in a row that produce a similar or same vertical dispersion from the POA. If they all look the same, shoot at a longer distance, typically no more than 300y for initial ladder testing to reduce environmental influence.
Take those 2-3 charges that shot very flat. Load in the middle of them and do a seating depth test. You could do a Berger style seating depth test, or depending on bullet choice you could find the common jump/jamb distance and start a bit longer than that. I load all rounds to seating depth testing at my longest BTO. I use an arbor press and Wilson seating die at the range to adjust my seating depth. I typically shoot 3 round groups when testing seating, but if you feel the shot and everything was good, but it didn't go where you expected, don't shoot a 3rd round. You can't shoot a group smaller.
Again, look at groups compared to the immediate neighbors to pick the best seating depth. Choose the longest seating depth in that range. Steps are typically in 0.003" increments for seating.
Now, you have a coarse powder node and a fine seating depth node. Now, take your known good seating depth and do a fine powder charge ladder. The reason I do pressure, seating then final charge is simple. First I like to find my max charge with that powder/bullet/primer combo for my lot of materials. By doing seating next, I've eliminated the chance of a poor seating depth hiding the potential of a good powder charge when we do the final, fine powder charge test.
Take your coarse powder charge window, start a little below and go a little above. For a 30-06 I would probably do 0.2gr steps because of the powder volume. I would start 1 step below and go 2 above. Because we know its a good seating depth, we can trust the groups and vertical dispersion we are seeing in this final test. This test should be performed at a longer distance. I like 2 rounds per charge, but if I have a narrow window I'm testing, I will do 3.
The important thing to remember when doing testing like this, do not stop once you shoot that "hummer" group. Keep going. You may just be on the edge of it and it could get better. You won't know if you stop as soon as it looks good. Go until it falls apart. You could have a wide node thats 1gr wide. Testing at distance will also amplify the small variables, making it easier to see.
TL/DR, test methodically and let the target tell you what the gun likes. A chronograph can help once you find your potential final load, but isn't necessary.
I have 20 pound keg of IMR 4350 I'm going to use first, Winchester brass to learn on before moving to Lapua eventually, my club is only shooting 300 yards at the present time, we do go to other clubs, but I have some time before that happens, I have Seirra's 168 grn match, Nosler CC, and I have some Berger 155.5 full bore, coming if one of those is a lesser choice then the others, I'd like to use those up learning. I have read and watched Erik Cortina and I can follow what he teaches and it makes sense, The people that down his ideas, I just don't understand why they're not beating him in the FClass matches?
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