Filling to case capacity?

[mike a]

My 243. I'm stuck at 1/2 moa. I've tried many different things except powder. Been using H414 w/mag primer. Doesn't fill case much. 80 sierra b/t blitz and 87 v-max. 1-10 twist and anything heavier shoots lousy. Still have lots of 414 but will to try 1 pound of something. Do you think filling the case helps?

 

[Paddyd]

It is believed by many that optimum results happen with cases are filled to nearly or completely full. Maybe try a powder that gives about an 80-90% fill with a safe pressure. I've found that the ballistics experts at Sierra bullets are happy to give you their input concerning questions like this. They usually will return an email in a day or two.

 

[saunaking]

Twist rate is a problem for the heavier bullets. If you want to shoot 100+ grain bullets you will need to go to a faster (8-8.5) twist barrel. H414 is a ball powder that will not fill a case like some of the stick powders that have similar burn rates (H4350 or the new IMR 4451). Both of these powders are less sensitive to temperature changes as well, so a load that works in April will usually work in July without pressure issues.

 

[Shynloco]

Mike,
Might I make a suggestion or two. Take a look in your Sierra Manual and see what the "Accuracy Load" velocity is in that weight of your Sierra bullet. See how close the velocity is to what you have loaded and see if you can match the two. The other thing I see is you are using Magnum Primers. Try testing with standard primers in your load and see if that improves your accuracy. Those are things I'd try and in some cases, has worked for me in the past in improving my grouping.

 

[tuttlefarm]

Try 37.0- 38.0 grains of 4064 with a 87 grain v-max and a standard primer

 

[LHSmith]

My 243. I'm stuck at 1/2 moa.

Depending on what your platform is -that could be exceptional for a .243 with production varmint bullets.

 

[potatoe]

H4350 was the powder that made a big difference in my .243AI w/ 80gr. Nosler's. I too was shooting H414 with decent results but it was a distant second after I switched to H4350

 

[savagedasher]

What capacity are you asking pressure or case capacity ?
Larry

 

[357Mag]

My 243. I'm stuck at 1/2 moa. I've tried many different things except powder. Been using H414 w/mag primer. Doesn't fill case much. 80 sierra b/t blitz and 87 v-max. 1-10 twist and anything heavier shoots lousy. Still have lots of 414 but will to try 1 pound of something. Do you think filling the case helps?

Mike -

Howdy !

Yeh.... I'm a believer in " high load density ".

My DEEP 6 wildcat has case capacity of 51.2gr H2O. .243 Win case capacity is listed as 54gr H2O.
My best accuracy w/ DEEP 6 has come w/ cases complelety filled w/ IMR7828, under 95 - 107gr bullets. In addition, RL-22 loads are pretty much tied for accuracy w/ the IMR7828 loads, and the case is almost completely full. Pressures are fine. Velocities for my loads/ my gun are slower than what some shooters might tolerate. But again, I don't have to reach a specific vel goal, for my current shooting needs.

I mention this because..... if you don't have a specific velocity goal in-mind, perhaps you might gain some accuracy by going w/ a slower powder/ more-full case ?

With an eye toward use of a temp insensitive powder, I intend to try out the newer IMR4955
" ENDURON " powder in my " DEEP 6 "; soon.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[Webster]

My 243. I'm stuck at 1/2 moa. I've tried many different things except powder. Been using H414 w/mag primer. Doesn't fill case much. 80 sierra b/t blitz and 87 v-max. 1-10 twist and anything heavier shoots lousy. Still have lots of 414 but will to try 1 pound of something. Do you think filling the case helps?

If it's a hunting rifle 1/2 MOA may be as good as it gets. 4350, Varget or 8208 should fill the case to near the bottom of the neck.

 

[mike a]

So I like the idea of temp insensitive powder as I have a summer & winter load. I live in the desert s/w and at 6am it can be 35 or 80deg. That's right 80 at 6am and 120 by noon. Yeh it is a hunting rifle. Howa thumbhole varmiter w/bull barrel. 1/2 moa is really all she my have (coyotes don't care) but I spent a lot of time at the range and shooting 2 1/2 in groups at 500 is fun. But smaller would be more funner. Ps my range is at -58 ft. Elevation.

 

[Brians356]

For an 85-gr bullet, Hodgdon online lists IMR 4831 a compressed load at 42.6 grains, and top 3 in highest velocity @3253.

Also the new IMR Enduron 4451 43.8 gr is in the top 3 max velocities @3338, and that's probably close to a case full. If you can find some I'd try 4451 for sure - temperature insensitive and copper anti-fouling.

These are WLR primer loads. You shouldn't use a mag primer unless load data specify it.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

 

[mike a]

For an 85-gr bullet, Hodgdon online lists IMR 4831 a compressed load at 42.6 grains, and top 3 in highest velocity @3253.

Also the new IMR Enduron 4451 43.8 gr is in the top 3 max velocities @3338, and that's probably close to a case full. If you can find some I'd try 4451 for sure - temperature insensitive and copper fouling averse.

These are WLR primer loads. You shouldn't use a mag primer unless load data specify it.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

Yes, 4831 seems to be a hit for many. I'm not up to speed on Enduron or 4451. Also max velocities is not as important to me as little tiny groups. Only used mag primers on h414 slightly reduced. Thanx Mike.

 

[Brians356]

max velocities is not as important to me as little tiny groups.

Well, powders that produce highest velocity, within pressure limits, are relatively efficient and tend to also produce good accuracy. You can always dial them back a bit for best accuracy, and still retain good velocity. Note that Sierra often lists the same powder for both "accuracy load" and "hunting load", just at different charge weights.

 

[savagedasher]

Fill capacity Depend on the internal volume Less the space the bullet displaces when seating.
OL seems to be very accurate on the fill capacity when the bullet is seated . Larry

 

[CaptainMal]

As questioned by many, what is the action, bedding, barrel, tuning, scope, shooting method, case preparation etc? To get below .5 MOA you are now into the provident of benchrest equipment. That most often means custom and tuned actions, custom barrels, superb ammo preparation, a quality cartridge design, good scopes of higher power and benchrest technique.

You speak nothing of that. Those factors should be the first thing you lay out so people know what they are dealing with.

Now don't talk about that "wallet group" you did once. Even the blind squirrel finds an acorn. If you talk .5's mean .5's for an average.

 

[mike a]

As questioned by many, what is the action, bedding, barrel, tuning, scope, shooting method, case preparation etc? To get below .5 MOA you are now into the provident of benchrest equipment. That most often means custom and tuned actions, custom barrels, superb ammo preparation, a quality cartridge design, good scopes of higher power and benchrest technique.

You speak nothing of that. Those factors should be the first thing you lay out so people know what they are dealing with.

Now don't talk about that "wallet group" you did once. Even the blind squirrel finds an acorn. If you talk .5's mean .5's for an average.

My dear captain, don't get your dander up. Though I do appreciate your post. Of course it's easy to sit on the Internet and tell stories. If I were going to do that I wouldn't of stated its a Howa 1500 thumbhole varmiter. .243, 1/10 twist. Leupold vx3 4.5x14x50. Leupold mounts & rings. Only upgrades from the box is glass bedding and trigger job. I have a few rifles, not many, some shoot, some don't. But this one shoots! You did say (most often means custom) agreed again. My average group size from last 9 three shot groups is .56 moa. The load is lapua brass 44.0grn h414 w/mag primer, sierra 80grn sbt blitz, .003 neck tension. I'd just like to see if I/ it can do better. It may not shoot any better but I'll have a lot of fun finding out. No harm in that I think. Thanx for you input. Cheers Mike

 

[Webster]

My 243. I'm stuck at 1/2 moa. I've tried many different things except powder. Been using H414 w/mag primer. Doesn't fill case much. 80 sierra b/t blitz and 87 v-max. 1-10 twist and anything heavier shoots lousy. Still have lots of 414 but will to try 1 pound of something. Do you think filling the case helps?

A 243 is hard on barrels. 800-1000 shots you may see a loss of accuracy with a good load. Don't shoot the barrel out. You already have a good load. Just go hunting. I know what you mean by enjoying tinkering with loads. I have a 700 with a 6BR Kreiger barrel on it. The rifle still shots small groups (around .350") 3000 shots but I still try different loads because I like going to the range and trying to improve my bench techniques and trying different loads. I hate to think of putting a new barrel on it for over $500. Short Action Custom Rifles just quoted me $1050 to put a barrel on another rifle. George Kelby no longer works on anything but his products. In 2009 he put a barrel on a rifle for me for about $500.

 

[mike a]

A 243 is hard on barrels. 800-1000 shots you may see a loss of accuracy with a good load. Don't shoot the barrel out. You already have a good load. Just go hunting. I know what you mean by enjoying tinkering with loads. I have a 700 with a 6BR Kreiger barrel on it. The rifle still shots small groups (around .350") 3000 shots but I still try different loads because I like going to the range and trying to improve my bench techniques and trying different loads. I hate to think of putting a new barrel on it for over $500. Short Action Custom Rifles just quoted me $1050 to put a barrel on another rifle. George Kelby no longer works on anything but his products. In 2009 he put a barrel on a rifle for me for about $500.

800 to a 1000, holy cow why didn't you tell me that early. Im at almost 600. Your right though I knew I was closing in on it. It's just so fun to shoot. I'd like to keep this rifle in the coyote killing business for years to come. Did this picture come out right? My first pic post.

 

[Brians356]

To get below .5 MOA you are now into the provident of benchrest equipment. That most often means custom and tuned actions, custom barrels, ...

That hasn't been my experience at all. I only have one custom-built rifle, but I load for three other mass-produced varmint rifles, and all three will consistently group well below .5 MOA: Rem 700 VS in 223 ('90s), Rem 700 Varmint Special in 6mm Rem (early '80s), and Sako L461 Vixen in 222 ('70s). They all still wear their OEM barrels. Except for the 223 with its HS Precision stock, the two older guns have OEM walnut stocks now glass bedded, no other mods. The rest of your statement - "superb ammo preparation, a quality cartridge design, good scopes of higher power and benchrest technique" - I agree with wholeheartedly. I will add "A well-tuned trigger."