Feedback Re Criterion Barrels?

[tiny68]

I make every barrel personally. Same as any other gunsmith. So, please don't broad brush all the "Prefits" together in one pile.

Certainly not suggesting that. I shot a prefit 30BR for a couple of seasons in 100/200 VFS. The limitation wasn't the barrel. It was the man behind the trigger... I would certainly trust a prefit to be as accurate as a regular fitted barrel if chambered correctly. Same is true for a regular fitted barrel.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

But remember Accuracy trumps Velocity/speed. Especially on paper.

You bet. Agree. Ideally I want it all if possible though. Why do I have to choose? I want the rifle to be its fastest most precise version of itself. I’m not starting out the build doing something that limits that.

 

[Badhabit]

But remember Accuracy trumps Velocity/speed. Especially on paper.

You missed his entire point! If they both have the same accuracy potential but one gets more velocity then why not take it. And getting on here bashing fellow shooters and prefit producers is insane. If you've been in this game long enough you will figure out we all get shit once in awhile from all manufacturers. I've got prefits from several that like to blow there horn and I get it they are trying to make a living and I've got absolute shit, but I'm not going to flame them on the internet. They're product still fits a niche of the bargain market. Yes some will shoot and some will win but don't expect it all the time from any manufacturer.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Certainly not suggesting that. I shot a prefit 30BR for a couple of seasons in 100/200 VFS. The limitation wasn't the barrel. It was the man behind the trigger... I would certainly trust a prefit to be as accurate as a regular fitted barrel if chambered correctly. Same is true for a regular fitted barrel.

Question.

If you buy a barrel from Kelbly for your Panda action, is that a prefit?

 

[tiny68]

Question.

If you buy a barrel from Kelbly for your Panda action, is that a prefit?

No in my opinion - but a better qualified answer would come from someone with a Panda that shot at the top competitive level. I think Kelby has a higher standard for quality control than a typical gunsmith. Based on what I have observed, it depends on the sport. In F/Class and PRS, I think those prefits (barrel nut or not) are highly competitive. In short range bench rest, many shooters I spoke to have their new barrel chambered by the smith built their rifle or do it themselves. I guess I think of it as not all gunsmiths do the same level of work. Back when match reports used to have equipment list including the gunsmith - I would see repeated names for gunsmiths. When you find a good gunsmith, I am willing to pay for the service and I expect a wait time.

 

[varget204]

When was the last barrel from NSS?

Got 2 in mid 2022 1-204 Ruger, 1- 6 BRA

 

[urbanrifleman]

No in my opinion - but a better qualified answer would come from someone with a Panda that shot at the top competitive level. I think Kelby has a higher standard for quality control than a typical gunsmith. Based on what I have observed, it depends on the sport. In F/Class and PRS, I think those prefits (barrel nut or not) are highly competitive. In short range bench rest, many shooters I spoke to have their new barrel chambered by the smith built their rifle or do it themselves. I guess I think of it as not all gunsmiths do the same level of work. Back when match reports used to have equipment list including the gunsmith - I would see repeated names for gunsmiths. When you find a good gunsmith, I am willing to pay for the service and I expect a wait time.

If you make a shouldered barrel to headspace for an action that holds headspace (in the new modern parlance) that's a "prefit".

In the old days, prefit was used for the vulgar "nut barrel". The Kelbly would have just been called a "finished barrel", with all appropriate pedigrees and stamps of approvals.

 

[tiny68]

I am sure I am using dated wording. After being avid hunter for many years, a friend gave me a copy of Vaughn's Rifle Accuracy Facts. As a scientist myself, that book made a lot of sense to me. I started looking at reloading and shooting from a different point of view. After attempting several precision shooting sports in the 2000s, live happened and I am just get to the back into game. It has changed a lot in 20 years.

Impact Precision Shooting is less than 30 miles from where I live. They are the top of the equipment list in PRS by some margin. They build a lot with pre-fits by Stuteville. And obviously very successfully. It can certainly be done.

Luck, Tim

 

[urbanrifleman]

I am sure I am using dated wording. After being avid hunter for many years, a friend gave me a copy of Vaughn's Rifle Accuracy Facts. As a scientist myself, that book made a lot of sense to me. I started looking at reloading and shooting from a different point of view. After attempting several precision shooting sports in the 2000s, live happened and I am just get to the back into game. It has changed a lot in 20 years.

Impact Precision Shooting is less than 30 miles from where I live. They are the top of the equipment list in PRS by some margin. They build a lot with pre-fits by Stuteville. And obviously very successfully. It can certainly be done.

Luck, Tim

All "shouldered prefit" means today is that it has a shoulder and headspaces. If you bought a barrel for any action that holds a headspace tolerance, made to headspace to that action (that holds a very small headspace tolerance), you bought a "prefit" (at least in 2024 terms). Whether from a factory or a famous gunsmith.

I would guess most people are using fixtures to headspace and clock barrels, just like any factory making automotive or aerospace parts.

The nut barrel just makes a "prefit" available to people who use less expensive actions that do not hold small headspace tolerance.

 

[AlNyhus]

Question.

If you buy a barrel from Kelbly for your Panda action, is that a prefit?

Those are precision fits. -Al

 

[urbanrifleman]

Those are precision fits. -Al

I like that term better. Sounds better. Still the same barrel though.

 

[AlNyhus]

I like that term better. Sounds better. Still the same barrel though.

Precision fits include the receiver threads as part of the equation.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Precision fits include the receiver threads as part of the equation.

Same as a prefit.

I'm confused. Are you saying that only a Kelbly action would have threads that would hold a standard tolerance? Just trying to be clear. I can assure you that just about every custom action on the market today is holding thread tolerance.

 

[AlNyhus]

Same as a prefit.

I'm confused. Are you saying that only a Kelbly action would have threads that would hold a standard tolerance? Just trying to be clear. I can assure you that just about every custom action on the market today is holding thread tolerance.

No, not just the Kelbly's. Lots of after market actions out there are right on the numbers the mfg provides. It's really a Golden Age time for consumers.

 

[urbanrifleman]

No, not just the Kelbly's. Lots of after market actions out there are right on the numbers the mfg provides. It's really a Golden Age time for consumers.

I really wish I could get away with calling my barrels "precision fit". These kids wouldn't know what I was talking about... Unfortunately.

 

[AlNyhus]

I really wish I could get away with calling my barrels "precision fit". These kids wouldn't know what I was talking about... Unfortunately.

Provided they are...why not describe the product you're providing? 'Precision Pre-Fits' would make a marketing type smile. -Al

 

[WayneShaw]

Kelbly actions are held to very close tolerances. Most who know their actions would have no hesitation to chamber a barrel and send it through the mail to the customer. Threads, shoulder, chamber, barrel markings will be proper. Most all who do barrel work have measurements and notes on actions they have worked on, where they don't need that action again.

 

[DR_2297]

Threads have a lot of toleranced dimensions and one can probably assume that for most manufacturers, if a thread plug go goes in and a plug no-go doesn’t then it is in fact “in spec”.

3B internal is the tightest real standard and if you want to go more you are really just costing yourself $ in time, tooling and probably scrap.

 

[Texas Solo]

My 1st competition barrel was a Schilen Select Match, .223, 1/7, 28".
It still shoots tiny groups at 1200 rds.

My next build was a .308. I went with Criterion for this one. 28", 1/10. It was a constant struggle to get 1/2" groups, forget getting anything better. I tried many bullet, powder combos, and lots of brass work. For 600yd FTR , it just tucked.

I took that 308 barrel off and got another Schilen 28", 1/7.5 in 6 Dasher. Out of the box 1/4" groups all day long.

I realize that the 6mm is inherently more accurate that a 308, but many 308's are damn good at 600yds.
Just not my Criterion.

I think it depends on your needs. Criterion might be OK for hunting, but not so much for a competition barrel.

 

[jelenko]

My 1st competition barrel was a Schilen Select Match, .223, 1/7, 28".
It still shoots tiny groups at 1200 rds.

My next build was a .308. I went with Criterion for this one. 28", 1/10. It was a constant struggle to get 1/2" groups, forget getting anything better. I tried many bullet, powder combos, and lots of brass work. For 600yd FTR , it just tucked.

I took that 308 barrel off and got another Schilen 28", 1/7.5 in 6 Dasher. Out of the box 1/4" groups all day long.

I realize that the 6mm is inherently more accurate that a 308, but many 308's are damn good at 600yds.
Just not my Criterion.

I think it depends on your needs. Criterion might be OK for hunting, but not so much for a competition barrel.

When did you buy the 308 barrel?
Thanks