Feedback Re Criterion Barrels?

[J.d. Popkes]

I have 2 6.5 creedmoors. One is a 28 inch barrel that i shoot 140 berger vld hunting bullets, H4350 powder. It’s shooting 2,730fps with my load. My other one is a 24 inch barrel. Shooting 140 eldm with R16 at 2,831fps. Now dont tell me 4 inch of barrel adds 100 fps.. lol. Having a longer barrel dont always mean crap. These are both factory rifles with factory barrels. If speed is an issue then try another powder thats known to give speed...

Your example proves zero. If you used rl16 in the other one, odds are you’re gaining velocity.

Longer barrel usually will run a bit faster. Sometimes it does indeed mean crap. Crap in this case being added velocity.

 

[ronsatspokane]

I shoot palma rifle pretty much exclusively and for the last 5 years or so I shoot 223 the majority of the matches I attend for long range and all mid range.

For most of us though, 223 is like a psycho girlfriend who loves you one day and wants to cut you for no reason the next.

Think long freebore and 85-90 grain bullets at 2800 +/-. For me I finish all of the barrels I do for myself and others @ 32”.

Ugh, didn’t read the time stamp before replying… necro thread…

That's OK. I like it when well aged threads are added to. Eliminates duplicate threads and repeated threads. And besides, I love your description of 223 being like a psycho girlfriend. I recently started shooting some rimfire and I'm telling ya, some of that rimfire ammo behaves very much like a psycho girlfriend. Hard to tell what it will do from shot to shot

 

[JB10]

Your example proves zero. If you used rl16 in the other one, odds are you’re gaining velocity.

Longer barrel usually will run a bit faster. Sometimes it does indeed mean crap. Crap in this case being added velocity.

Yes, longer barrels usually run faster with all things equal. In my case they are not. One powder is faster than the other. My example is stating try another powder that might be known for more velocity.

 

[urbanrifleman]

As has been pointed out, Jackies nut was 1.25. But if 1.055 shoot as well I guess we'll see them showing up at the top of the nationals leader boards soon enough.

 

[Woollybugger]

First of all I'm not bashing Criterion, but have a concern and looking for wider spread feedback. For a number of years several shooting buds and myself had great performance with these prefits in Fclass. Replacing these within the last year, three guys could not get them to shoot, two in the last few months. After a week of emails and phone calls (leave a message), no response as yet. It took the first guy nine months to get a replacement which is marginal and very temperamental. I've had several CBI which were easy load development and shot great, as did my buds. Always got an answer when I called. Seems like quality and service have fallen off. What is your current experience?

If these are remage or savage nut barrels get them from Urbanrifleman. He is also now make shouldered prefits for several actions.

 

[varget204]

Have had 5 Criterian Barrels All from Northland Shooter Supply, 2- 204 Ruger, 1 -6 Creedmore, 1 6.5/284 , 1- 6MM BRA all shot great. The 6 BRA was a 30" HV Palma,it did have a couple of barrel worms about 1" from the muzzle, ZERO effect, I have posted pictures of groups @600,800,1000 yards w/ Barts Bullets with it.Would Highly recommend NSS , Criterion Barrels

 

[jelenko]

Have had 5 Criterian Barrels All from Northland Shooter Supply, 2- 204 Ruger, 1 -6 Creedmore, 1 6.5/284 , 1- 6MM BRA all shot great. The 6 BRA was a 30" HV Palma,it did have a couple of barrel worms about 1" from the muzzle, ZERO effect, I have posted pictures of groups @600,800,1000 yards w/ Barts Bullets with it.Would Highly recommend NSS , Criterion Barrels

When was the last barrel from NSS?

 

[CharlieNC]

This shows the radial tooling marks on the leades and associated grooves which was returned for poor shooting, so the depth has been smoothed by a couple hundred rounds. The current replacement barrel looks worse.

 

[urbanrifleman]

This shows the radial tooling marks on the leades and associated grooves which was returned for poor shooting, so the depth has been smoothed by a couple hundred rounds. The current replacement barrel looks worse.

View attachment 1615465

A few Tubb TMS bullets would (most likely) smooth that right up.

IMHO I do not see that being a limiting factor to accuracy. It is certainly "smooth enough" to shoot well. I have seen Savages that look like teeth on a file in the throat and shoot well.

 

[CharlieNC]

A few Tubb TMS bullets would (most likely) smooth that right up.

IMHO I do not see that being a limiting factor to accuracy. It is certainly "smooth enough" to shoot well. I have seen Savages that look like teeth on a file in the throat and shoot well.

BUT it didn't, and the entire region carboned up badly. These two barrels are not indicative of cbi previous quality. I bet you would not ship that........

 

[urbanrifleman]

BUT it didn't, and the entire region carboned up badly. These two barrels are not indicative of cbi previous quality. I bet you would not ship that........

What I am saying is that I think it was something else making it not shoot well.

I understand your frustration, but that chatter would make it copper in the barrel, but I do not think it would effect carbon.

 

[CharlieNC]

What I am saying is that I think it was something else making it not shoot well.

I understand your frustration, but that chatter would make it copper in the barrel, but I do not think it would effect carbon.

BUT as mentioned earlier it gave a pronounced scalloped profile of carbon in that region, which is what drew my attention to examine it closer. Personally I would expect deep grooves in the bottom of the grooves to provide dead space to initiate accumulation, which would be prone to carbonize.

For barrels which are otherwise flawless, the chambering exhibits poor workmanship. And given a number of fellow shooters have experienced a deterioration in scores with new cbi barrels (going back about three years) my bottom line is I will not buy another. I hate to have reached this decision because I shot a record with one several years ago, but this current track record has eroded all confidence.

 

[Sniperhandle]

BUT as mentioned earlier it gave a pronounced scalloped profile of carbon in that region, which is what drew my attention to examine it closer. Personally I would expect deep grooves in the bottom of the grooves to provide dead space to initiate accumulation, which would be prone to carbonize.

For barrels which are otherwise flawless, the chambering exhibits poor workmanship. And given a number of fellow shooters have experienced a deterioration in scores with new cbi barrels (going back about three years) my bottom line is I will not buy another. I hate to have reached this decision because I shot a record with one several years ago, but this current track record has eroded all confidence.

As you probably already know, Criterion barrels are just Kreiger's lower line of button rifled barrels.

I'm sure the decline in quality and workmanship was a result of covid and the panic buying, Increasingly Hard to find workers, Etc. They had to crank out an unusually high volume of barrels during that time I'm sure, And the new bodies, Tired workers etc. contributed to the downturn in quality.

Just in the past 6 to 8 months things are starting to slow down and the covid funny money has all been spent. There is full shelves of powder now at my local places and components are coming into stock.

Criterion wasn't the only barrel company that suffered from these issues, Some of the bigger names had problems too.

I hope Criterion Barrels can get back to normal.

 

[DLT]

This shows the radial tooling marks on the leades and associated grooves which was returned for poor shooting, so the depth has been smoothed by a couple hundred rounds. The current replacement barrel looks worse.

View attachment 1615465

I wish I had a barrel that didn’t look like that

 

[ronsatspokane]

View attachment 1615414

Carry on.

 

[tiny68]

I purchased this Criterion 308W sporter barrel from James at NSS last month to put on my sons hunting rifle. Curious, so I put the scope in and snapped this image tonight. Pretty smooth in the leads to the lands. This is after a 11 shot break-in with factory loads. It shoot sub-1" which is all I expect until I tune a load for it. This was my first barrel in the last 5 years from NSS. I have several older Shilen and Criterion from NSS that haven't have any issues. Hopefully it was a one time deal you got.

I have had my gunsmith give back chambers that looked bad to me after a rechamber or re-barrel. Dull reamers? Lubricant/cutting fluid flow? Wrong lathe rpms? I don't claim to understand what it takes to make it a piece of art. I truly don't expect a bulk purchase barrel (like NSS ones from a barrel maker) to be master machinist/gunsmith quality. Great if I get that on occasion, but I don't expect it.

Luck, Tim

 

[jelenko]

don't except a bulk purchase barrel (like NSS ones from a barrel maker) to be master machinist/gunsmith quality

Right. But, I would expect the barrels thru NSS are the same as if I bought the barrel direct from the mfg - e.g., Criterion.

 

[tiny68]

Right. But, I would expect the barrels thru NSS are the same as if I bought the barrel direct from the mfg - e.g., Criterion.

I don’t think they are any different. I have been to Shilen swap meeting a few times and toured their barrel making process. The same employees chamber a direct order pre-fit that chamber a bulk order for NSS. I purchased a barrel directly from Shilen once at the swap meet. Chamber wasn’t at the specs described when I got it home. Wade Hull made it good and the made me a new barrel. I have never dealt with Criterion directly but only purchased blanks from Krieger. I don’t know their practice. Trained to do a job to yield a SAAMI spec chamber. Just my opinion but I think they are luck of the draw with a bulk purchased prefit. Not that my view has any weight at all. I would be questioning the retailer if I got that chamber as well.

I have spent the last two weeks cleaning up some older and newer factory barrels from Savage, Remington, and Ruger. None have been pretty. If fact they leave me wondering how these rifles shoot at the level they do (0.5-0.8 MOA).

Tim

 

[urbanrifleman]

I make every barrel personally. Same as any other gunsmith. So, please don't broad brush all the "Prefits" together in one pile.

Having come from 25 years in engineering in assembly and manufacturing, I could imagine the difficulties of using a factory to chamber barrels.

That being said, these chambers I'm seeing posted here are all better than factory chambers from Remington or Savage.

That tiny bit of chatter in the throat is not the problem. If they don't shoot it's probably the barrel itself.

 

[Bill K]

Why? Because velocity.

But remember Accuracy trumps Velocity/speed. Especially on paper.