Federal Cart. Primer Pocket Question

[fredhorace77]

I recently purchased 1300 once fired Federal Cart. Co. brass...aka FC in .223 This brass was advertised as once fired range pick up brass, which i believe it is..when it arrived it still had the factory primer in it with the red primer sealer Federal puts on them...after resizing and triming I decided to prime them using CCI 400 and Fed205GM...both primers went in with my finger...the primer pockets are basically way to large...

Do you think the primer pockets could be toast after 1 firing...are they loading factory ammo that hot...these were supposedly shot in an AR-15. No fault of the seller i purchased from...he couldnt have known...

 

[ShootDots]

Federal brass is NOTORIOUS for being VERY soft>>>>especially in the web!

 

[fredhorace77]

Federal brass is NOTORIOUS for being VERY soft>>>>especially in the web!

So in your opinion...do you think these are toasted...basically scrap metal?

 

[ShootDots]

Yes Sir Fred, I am afraid so... It is terrible what they have done to you... Probably not intentionally, they may not have been aware that the brass is so soft!! I am sorry Fred..

 

[fredhorace77]

Yea...definately no fault on the seller for sure...Just going to have to be a lesson learned for me...about 2 out of 10 primer pockets are tight enough i think i can use them for my reduced trail boss loads...shouldnt be much problem there...guess ill just have to fire them and see...

I cant believe they can load a factory round for a 223 that hot...Man ive got some winchester brass thats on its 9 firing and the primer pockets are still great....and i dont shoot mild loads

 

[doc gordon]

when I started reloading for accuracy I was told by several of top shooters and bullet makers
' don't use federal brass for this reason ,I must admit fed. ammo has been good in hunting rifles !!!

 

[ShootDots]

Winchester brass is STEEL compared to Federal brass.. I tried loading Federal brass a LONG time ago in a .270, I got exactly ONE (1) loading and it was done! It was already loaded ammo that I pulled the bullets on.. Really not suitable for reloading..

 

[fredhorace77]

this might be a stupid question...but is there anything i can do to this brass to try to salvage it...

Do you think federal makes the primer pockets somewhat on the large size to accomadate the primer sealer?

would using a primer sealer help me any...or just toss them in the scrap pile

 

[ShootDots]

I would try and seat as many as I could that seat with at least CLOSE to normal pressure. BUT Try using a CCI BR-4 primer>>>they have a "relatively" large cup>>>and use it with very mild loads and you might just get away with a few good loads out of it..

 

[fredhorace77]

I would try and seat as many as I could that seat with at least CLOSE to normal pressure. BUT Try using a CCI BR-4 primer>>>they have a "relatively" large cup>>>and use it with very mild loads and you might just get away with a few good loads out of it..

I have thought of that...I was looking at Calhoons chart on primer sizes....Hardest part is going to be able to find CCI BR-4...I posted eariler that cabelas had them in stock but i think they were $70 per 1000 and then add shipping and hazmat...so basically easily $100...think ill trash the brass first before spending that much...Actually think i may just set them aside..maybe when things settle down i can find some BR4 at a reasonable price.

Thanks for all the help everyone...

 

[FroggyOne2]

this might be a stupid question...but is there anything i can do to this brass to try to salvage it....

Yes there is, take it to the local scrap metal yard and salvage it!

 

[bigedp51]

these were supposedly shot in an AR-15. No fault of the seller i purchased from...he couldnt have known...

I would contact the person who sold you the brass and demand your money back for being dishonest. It is a well known fact among reloaders that some types of federal brass are junk. The problem is not soft brass, the problem is the cases were made thinner in the web at the flash hole.

Not all Federal cases were made this way and Federal later corrected the problem. This is why I would say this person put the screws to you and was dishonest.

A two inch rod is used to test Federal cases for being thin at the flash hole, if all your cases are this type then there is a good chance they were sorted and sold.

Below are some very good postings on the subject and were from 2008-2009 time frame. This is why I say it is "odd" that all your .223 cases are defective.

Federal 223 case identification (good or bad ??)
http://3gn.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=296556

Current American Eagle .223 once fire brass
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/276154_.html

The results of reloading these type cases, after one firing the primer pockets are loose and the cases are NFG.

The next time you buy once fired .223/5.56 cases only buy Lake City military cases, military brass is made to higher standards and is harder in the base of the case.

And the problem started when the M16 was first issued during the Viet Nam war and as a result the military set requirements for commercial contract 5.56 cartridge cases.

 

[jo191145]

If you can get some Russian primers they might be acceptable. The ruskies are larger in diameter.

 

[fredhorace77]

big...i appreciate your post...but still I will not hold the seller responsible...All this brass came to me factory primed and in the seller's listing it did not state anything about it other than it was once fired without a crimp...which it was...The brass arrived exactly as advertised...It's my fault for not knowing about this...now that I do know about it I will be more catious when purchasing...
Its very possible the seller didnt even know this...Ive been reloading for years...and just learned something new thru this..i would be asking for a refund if i would have asked if these were known to be to thin in the web. but i never asked so its my fault

Thnx for the info on using the 2 inch rod...that will be a quick way for me to determine if any of them are usable..I have not determined that all are unusable yet...ill get a rod to check them...I may have some out of the 1300 that are usable

 

[CatShooter]

I cant believe they can load a factory round for a 223 that hot...Man ive got some winchester brass thats on its 9 firing and the primer pockets are still great....and i dont shoot mild loads

It's not because the loads are "hot", it's because the case brass is so soft.

 

[Preacher]

Plus 1 on the Russian primers...........

 

[swampshooter]

The cups in Federal primers are soft also. At least the 210M.

 

[jlow]

This is correct - the Wolf/Tula primers are bigger and will sit tight in a primer pocket that is loose for US primers like Rem 71/2. I agree also with CatShooter in terms of the soft brass they use.....

As long as it is not the old stuff with the thin web and the primer seats in relatively tight you are still OK for a while so maybe not all is lost unless you are going to load them hot. As for the year that is bad, I think you best read this thread by dryflash3 who has done a study with them:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/276154_.html&page=1

 

[bigedp51]

fredhorace77

The moderator in the reloading forum at AR15.com is an expert on this subject and has done more testing of the different brands of .223/5.56 than anyone else. This is why I linked the posting from this website with the info he has posted.

I ran into the same problem you are having BUT I have mixed brands of Federal cases and they are not all the same. Many people say the problem is with only American Eagle cases under the Federal brand name.

The AR15 Moderator came up with a simple test pictured below using a Lee depriming tool, if you can push the primers out with finger pressure the cases are no good.

I have had no problems reloading Federal military ammunition that I bought new and fired in my AR15s.

 

[fredhorace77]

Thanks so much bigedp51...i just built a tool like you posted earlier and here are my findings...
BTW mine are mixed federal head stamps also...so looks like some will be good to go

All Federal Headstamp

1. .190"
2. .190"
3. .192"
4. .175" These are the ones to cull i suppose

Winchester Brass
1. .192"
2. .193"
3. .190"
4. .191"

Thanks so much for your help "big" i think i maybe able to salvage some of this brass...the primer pockets on the ones that measured out fine are just a hair too big...so i think ill try some of those russian primers or the CCI BR4..thnx again..i appreciate everyones help