Factory Cast Bullet Advice

[Thepng]

Hello,

I recently bought a box of 158 grain SWC lead bullets to shoot out of my 6” 357 magnum revolver. I got a good deal on these bullets, but they’re from a local no-name factory so I don’t have any info as far as hardness or anything like that. Bullets measure .357 in diameter.

I can’t scratch these with my fingernail, and the generic cast bullets are reputed to be hard enough that they don’t work particularly well with 38 special velocities.

Anyone have good success with the generic cast 38 bullets? (Meaning decent accuracy and not too much leading)

My current plan is to start loading these up at minimum 357 loads over Alliant 2400 and work up until I get decent results. Any other suggestions?

 

[SSL]

Tough to evaluate with so many variables. Mold design, lube, alloy, velocities...all play a role. .358" is mostly considered to be the 'sweet spot' for .38 - .357 bullets, but that isn't a hard and fast rule. In general, flat-bottom bullets work best. Bevel-bases may seat easier, but are known to lead easier too. Lube that isn't too hard or too soft and velocity will all figure into your success (or lack of) with your bullets, and of course your particular barrel matters too.
As to them possibly being too hard: Many years ago I cast a lot of .358" bullets for a Ruger Security Six, a S&W M19 and a S&W 27. I did a run of bullets from pure linotype metal and had no leading at all and accuracy was very good. Such bullets would shoot through a steel road culvert and the only deformation was a rounding of the bullet nose and shoulder. No need for that hard of a bullet of course, but I was experimenting.

 

[243winxb]

First weigh a few. My as cast run 163 grs from a 158 lswc mold.
I load 12.5 to 13.0 grs of Alliant 2400. Works with most primers. I use a mag primer. Starline brass.

If bullet diameter is a measured .357" that a litte undersize for some guns. My minimum is .3575" to .358" i size to groove diameter plus .0005" over.

Hardness is tested with my thumb nail. If you cant mark the bullet, good to go.

If you get leading, coat with some Lee Liquid Alox.

 

[Kylongrifle32]

Make sure to clean any copper fouling from your barrel before shooting the lead ones. And vise versa when going back to jacketed bullets if lead fouling is present.
Hopefully the .357 diameter bullets will perform in your gun. I prefer . 358 to . 360 diameter in my Ruger Blackhawk.

 

[Thepng]

Make sure to clean any copper fouling from your barrel before shooting the lead ones. And vise versa when going back to jacketed bullets if lead fouling is present.
Hopefully the .357 diameter bullets will perform in your gun. I prefer . 358 to . 360 diameter in my Ruger Blackhawk.

I measured my chamber throats at .359, so not super optimistic about performance with a .357 dia bullet.

I also appreciate the tips in the responses above about cleaning jacketed material out before shooting and adding additional lube if I see leading! My smith and Wesson leaded quite a bit with swaged soft wadcutters over light loads, so looking to avoid any more time with copper choreboy as possible!

Hopefully these give me some decent practice rounds until I finally go down the casting rabbit hole!

 

[K22]

2400 is not the powder I would choose for cast lead bullets. In my experience, this powder works best with full power (book data) jacketed bullet loads. Before you dump on me, I know Elmer Keith used it quite successfully with his hard cast bullets but that was before there were the high-quality jacket bullets that we have today. Can it work, yes, but if I wanted full power loads for hunting or self-defense, I would opt for jacketed bullets, especially the Hornady XTP's. In my experience, lead bullets are a good choice for target shooting and range practice. I used them extensively for this purpose and they work very well with modest charges of faster powders such as 231.

I don't understand why being "too hard" would not work in the 38 Special Loads. I've shot jacket bullets in the 38 Special loadings that are extremely accurate. As long as the bullets are properly lubricated and not driven above about 900 f/s, leading should not be a problem.

For both swaged and lead cast bullets, I prefer modest charges of fast burning powder. My powder of choice is Winchester 231. Oregon Trail Laser Cast bullets in 38 loadings with this powder is very accurate in my revolvers. Leading is minimal.

 

[Outrider27]

What K22 said above. In the 20 years or so I did it for 38 Special (1970-1990), I used Bullseye and Unique; both worked well - we didn't have a lot of the suitable powders commonly available now, like 231, in those days.

 

[Oso]

Cast bullets are commonly used in competition shooting IDPA and USPSA. They are economically priced and perform well. If you plan to reload the preferred suppliers are Bayou Bullets and Black Bullets International. Both of these suppliers provide cast bullets coated in a moly blend that is incredibly tough. The advantages of the moly coating are no more lead in barrel, no need for wax coating so no smoke cloud when fired, no concern around lead vaporization (no exposed lead).

I’ve been using Bayou Bullets for +25 years. They have ever bullet profile, weight and several colors to choose from.

For 38/357, I really like the 160gr round nose. During load development for revolver, I did some powder test and determined that Bullseye, Titegroup and Trail Boss were cleanest burning powders and also had best recoil impulse. If you are loading lighter loads in bigger cases, such as 38/357, then Trail Boss is best choice. As compared to Bullseye and Titegroup, Trail Boss’ case fill was 2x-3x. No risk of a double charge with Trail Boss.

 

[JSH]

Size is king.

All I will say is I never had and stellar results from store bought bullets, I have tried about all of them. Some guarantee this and that with their superior alloy or lube if not both. Yet when I shoot a few and the lead like crazy, it is always me or my firearms fault. Funny that I shot literally thousand of rounds of my cast bullets with zero issues and excellent results.

I would suggest to contact whom ever you choose and see if they offer a sample of 10-25 bullets. I had several thousand that got melted the last time I smelted a bunch of scrap.

Others will howl I am sure. I never had good results with a 38 case in a 357 chamber, with the exception of one and it was designed to do so.

 

[SSL]

Size is king.

All I will say is I never had and stellar results from store bought bullets, I have tried about all of them. Some guarantee this and that with their superior alloy or lube if not both. Yet when I shoot a few and the lead like crazy, it is always me or my firearms fault. Funny that I shot literally thousand of rounds of my cast bullets with zero issues and excellent results.

I would suggest to contact whom ever you choose and see if they offer a sample of 10-25 bullets. I had several thousand that got melted the last time I smelted a bunch of scrap.

Others will howl I am sure. I never had good results with a 38 case in a 357 chamber, with the exception of one and it was designed to do so.

Good advice. I have only had a couple manufacturers bullets that performed to my expectations, but I haven't used any from that many makers. I started casting my own lots of years ago and lube with alox. The only commercial casting company name I can remember that sold me very good bullets was LeadHeads, and I only bought from them to try a particular bullet shape before buying my own molds. That would have been about 20 years ago, but they were great to talk to and their bullets were all I could ask for.

 

[old codger]

Buy a Lee bullet hardness tester. It is cheap and you can get a good idea of how hard they actually are.

 

[K22]

Size is king.

All I will say is I never had and stellar results from store bought bullets, I have tried about all of them. Some guarantee this and that with their superior alloy or lube if not both. Yet when I shoot a few and the lead like crazy, it is always me or my firearms fault. Funny that I shot literally thousand of rounds of my cast bullets with zero issues and excellent results.

I would suggest to contact whom ever you choose and see if they offer a sample of 10-25 bullets. I had several thousand that got melted the last time I smelted a bunch of scrap.

Others will howl I am sure. I never had good results with a 38 case in a 357 chamber, with the exception of one and it was designed to do so.

The Speer 148 grain hollow base swaged lead bullets with light charges (book data) of bullseye, 231 or similar powders are extremely accurate capable of "X" accuracy at 50 yards in a quality revolver such as the Model 14 S&W or Colt Officer's Model Match.

They will not lead the barrel either when driven at these velocities, i.e., 750 - 800 ft/s. I have shot thousands of them in competition. I am not saying that you don't need to clean the bore periodically for carbon built up, but you do not have to use any elaborate solvents to remove lead. Hoppe's 9 will take out the carbon and that is all that is needed with these bullets.

 

[JSH]

I shot some leadheads years ago, went with what he recommended at the time. Results were not good. Later on I ordered what I wanted to in the beginning and it was a winner.

Hollow base wad cutters can be ridiculously accurate, but they can be fussy. I still shoot a fair jag of wadcutters, just a flat base though.
I have not cast anything in a long time. I have shall we say a large supply ready to be sized and lubed.
I cast for everything .22- .510.
I have enough lead alloy to keep busy for a long time.

 

[Thepng]

The plot thickens! After opening the box, there are 2 different style of bullet—I might have gotten what I paid for…

That being said, after measuring them both styles are reading .358 to .360 in my calipers. Should not have taken the box label at face value!

Using proper caution, I’m hoping to load some up for the range this weekend and see how they do

 

[Zero333]

The 9mm hard cast bullets I sometimes use mic at 0.3562" on average. 125 gr NR. I only shoot them outside because I'm not too used to the lead smoke indoors. They shoot no better or worst than jacketed or plated bullets.

 

[tommeboy]

First. Do not use a mag primer with 2400 in the 357mag. Alliant says not to use it. And 2400 works just fine in the 357.

Second. Swaged bullets have to be kept to a max of about 1000fps. They are too soft.

 

[243winxb]

Do not use a mag primer with 2400 in the 357mag

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sh...00-in-the-357-Magnum-with-6-different-primers

With pressure test equipment. NOTE, WSPM increased pressure.

Some standard primers cups may be thinner then magnum primers. Resulting in pierced primers.

I have always used a magnum primer or the correct primer listed for a 357 mag. Like Remington 5 1/2, with Alliant 2400 powder.

I posted before-
Correct primers for 38 and 357

Reloading data lists these primers to be used with the 357 magnum. CCI 550 Mag., WSPM, FED 200, REM 5 1/2

Reloading data lists these primers to be used with the 38 special and 38special +P. CCI 500,Rem 1 1/2, Fed 100, WSP,

. This info is available at all primer manufacture websites.

Ball powder = Magnum primers.

Edit add, from link. However, the accuracy of the magnum primed loads was consistently better than the standard primers with the exception of the WSP primer with the A2400 powder.

 

[tommeboy]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sh...00-in-the-357-Magnum-with-6-different-primers

With pressure test equipment. NOTE, WSPM increased pressure.

Some standard primers cups may be thinner then magnum primers. Resulting in pierced primers.

I have always used a magnum primer or the correct primer listed for a 357 mag. Like Remington 5 1/2, with Alliant 2400 powder.

Alliant says NOT to use them.

 

[SSL]

Alliant says NOT to use them.

They have for years, but no one seems to want to listen...

 

[243winxb]

Note, of all testing at link, * this load, primer produced the smallest 10 shot group @ 50 yards.*
WSPM------------Alliant 2400----------1607-------12/37-------41,600-------2700/9000-------2.85”

2.85" group, the primer i use with my M28-2 for many years. I do my own testing of, alloys, diameters, primers.

As always, do your own testing.