F-Class now has it's own Rules Book (2024)

[Dave M.]

Seven pages of cheap entertainment....

And the subject of panties vs g-strings hasn't even come up yet. Everytime I'm ready to jump in and go shoot a "real" match (and spend a few hundred dollars doing it) I come across a thread like this and think do I really want to get involved with these ladies? Doesn't sound like a lot of fun. As soon as the sun comes up I'm going to go shoot in the field in front of the house. By myself, under my rules, and laugh about all of this.

You should come shoot, as for the subject of g-strings vs panties, I can’t speak for the rest of the guys but I enjoy shooting in shorts, no underwear and barefoot.

 

[Dave M.]

Dave M. said:
People are so freaking wound up about free recoil. I say just get an adjustable hydraulic RAD 2A and you can play with the springs and hydraulic orifice size and dramatically change the recoil pulse. The force is the same, but it is first dampened and the “collision time” is significantly increased.
Dave

How was this not addressed in the rules revision?. It must be an advantage. As with all other modifications to a basic rifle that people pay for. If it doesn't help, people wouldn't use it.. How does this fit in the spirit of F-Class when anything other than sandbags on a front rest is a violation of that spirit? Or should I go read the rules again?

People have been using recoil dampers for a long time. At our state championship I’d say about half the guys were shooting with the RAD 2A

 

[ronsatspokane]

Dave M. said:
People are so freaking wound up about free recoil. I say just get an adjustable hydraulic RAD 2A and you can play with the springs and hydraulic orifice size and dramatically change the recoil pulse. The force is the same, but it is first dampened and the “collision time” is significantly increased.
Dave

How was this not addressed in the rules revision?. It must be an advantage. As with all other modifications to a basic rifle that people pay for. If it doesn't help, people wouldn't use it.. How does this fit in the spirit of F-Class when anything other than sandbags on a front rest is a violation of that spirit? Or should I go read the rules again?

Excellent question. When we read in the new rule book about how they don't want F Class to turn into a dollar based arms race and how they want to maintain the "spirit" of the more primitive form of the competition, I think the British have a saying that comes to mind when trying to square observation with rhetoric. It goes something like this: Yeah, and me cocks a kipper...

Someone is going to have hurt feelings over that statement but I blame those potty mouthed Brits for coming up with such a clear and concise statement that so accurately squares observation with rhetoric.

For the Americans who wonder what a kipper is, it is a tasty seafood snack.

 

[ronsatspokane]

People have been using recoil dampers for a long time. At our state championship I’d say about half the guys were shooting with the RAD 2A

Yeah, about as "in the spirit" as a rail gun would be.

 

[sdean]

Yeah, about as "in the spirit" as a rail gun would be.

Compared to Joypod acceptance, all this other is trivial. It's an equipment race race, such is life. The rule book would be 6 inches thick to cover every possibility.

 

[ronsatspokane]

Compared to Joypod acceptance, all this other is trivial. It's an equipmentrace race, such is life. The rule book would be 6 inches thick to cover every possibility.

I agree. Open should be open. Limit the weight of the rifle and the max caliber and no rail guns then let innovation take its course. This "spirit of" thing is is hard to swallow when $2000 rests and $500 RAD's are all the fashion.

 

[LVLAaron]

You should come shoot, as for the subject of g-strings vs panties, I can’t speak for the rest of the guys but I enjoy shooting in shorts, no underwear and barefoot.

Train how you fight.

 

[Dave M.]

Yeah, about as "in the spirit" as a rail gun would be.

I think their is pretty big difference between shooting a rail gun and having a RAD butt stock rifle, but I get what you are saying.

 

[memilanuk]

That's the thing... some of the original language regarding return-to-battery and tracking and such was written essentially by sling shooters, and reflected their point of view. That we're still struggling with that same language almost 20 years later is somewhat unbelievable - but then again, it *is* the NRA.

My hope and dream is that now that this language has been separated out from the morass of the conventional HP rulebook, maybe @dbramley and company can start revising things in future editions. I think a lot of people - myself included - thought there'd be more of that right out of the gate, but in hindsight that would be maybe too much to bite off in one go.

At least now we have our own rule book, administered by people who do actually have experience in the venue - which is a *huge* step forward, any way you look at it.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Interesting points of view that often orbit the "spirit" ideal. If I understood the intent of the return-to-battery prohibition, it was to disallow mechanical devices that would return the rifle to battery for the shooter. If that intent was to disallow any device or material that would move the rifle forward after the shot, then the only permissible butt materials would be a solid, hard endplate. Any flexible material (such as rubber) deforms under load and then returns to it's original shape. This results in rubber buttpads "pushing" the rifle toward battery after each shot just like a RAD, just to a lesser degree. RAD devices do not return the rifle to battery any more than any other rubber or sorbothane or ?? material. I think this highlights the need to define thresholds for rule clarity. If a RAD (or heaven forbid a RAD with attached sorbothane pad - grin) somehow violates the rule, then we need to define the specific amount of deformation/rebound that is permitted. IF the intent is to maintain the purity of the "spirit" of F-Class, then rules will have to be written in absolutes (Buttstocks may not terminate in energy-absorbing pads or attachments of any kind).

 

[kzin]

ICFRA F-Class rules

F6. CONDUCT OF SHOOTING.
F6.1. Fullbore F-Class events the prone position only must be used, unless special provisions exist
in the match conditions for disabled competitors and where range safety regulations so
permit. The bipod legs or the rear leg/legs of a front rest must be behind, but (taking into
account the condition of the firing point) as close as possible to the line or row of numbers
defining the forward edge of the firing point. The muzzle of the rifle MUST protrude over
the forward edge as defined, and must be well forward of the ears of neighboring
competitors. While the shooter must present himself to the rifle in the normal prone position
it is not a requirement for the butt plate to be placed in the shoulder.

US NRA has created a situation where the national rules are directly contradictory to the international rules.

 

[kzin]

That's the thing... some of the original language regarding return-to-battery and tracking and such was written essentially by sling shooters, and reflected their point of view. That we're still struggling with that same language almost 20 years later is somewhat unbelievable - but then again, it *is* the NRA.

My hope and dream is that now that this language has been separated out from the morass of the conventional HP rulebook, maybe @dbramley and company can start revising things in future editions. I think a lot of people - myself included - thought there'd be more of that right out of the gate, but in hindsight that would be maybe too much to bite off in one go.

At least now we have our own rule book, administered by people who do actually have experience in the venue - which is a *huge* step forward, any way you look at it.

The HP rule that allegedly prohibits free recoil was written by sling shooters to regulate sling shooters.
Innovators were tucking the butt into their jacket or otherwise hooking it so they made a rule that it "must be held against the outside". Nobody was concerned that a sling competitor might hold the gun OFF their shoulder. It only sounds that way to those who disregard the context.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

I’m not a lawyer trying to dissect the rules, and just glad I only shoot at small local matches that don’t look at shooters with a magnifying glass trying see that they are 100% going by the rules. Just a bunch of good ole boys enjoying life

 

[rardoin]

ICFRA F-Class rules


US NRA has created a situation where the national rules are directly contradictory to the international rules.

"Surprise, surprise, surprise" To be spoken in the voice of PFC Pyle, Gomer.

 

[davidjoe]

That's the thing... some of the original language regarding return-to-battery and tracking and such was written essentially by sling shooters, and reflected their point of view. That we're still struggling with that same language almost 20 years later is somewhat unbelievable - but then again, it *is* the NRA.

My hope and dream is that now that this language has been separated out from the morass of the conventional HP rulebook, maybe @dbramley and company can start revising things in future editions. I think a lot of people - myself included - thought there'd be more of that right out of the gate, but in hindsight that would be maybe too much to bite off in one go.

At least now we have our own rule book, administered by people who do actually have experience in the venue - which is a *huge* step forward, any way you look at it.

In that preamble about the spirit of Fclass, did I miss that the entire purpose of devising it was to accommodate the physical failings associated. especially, with aging??

This is the headline, is it not, and the reason for existence, of F-Class. The single overriding rule of High Power, in all positions, is holding the rifle, oneself. I frankly don’t know how High Power reconciled this elephant in the room, maybe it was being GRACIOUS.

In any event the story of Fclass is being allowed to participate despite hallowed RULES to the contrary and physical inability. Those “Parent” competitors, drafters, revere them but know they’d bounce you, with prejudice to return, in a heartbeat, when you pulled the trigger on the freak shows we drag around.

What’s the spirit of F-Class, - wider participation, it’s the inclusion of safe, interested shooters who want to shoot for score, and do it well, with the best gear they can devise. It’s not any more grandiose or exclusionary than that, and doesn’t need to be. Best of the best of the best, enlist for BUDS.

 

[memilanuk]

ICFRA F-Class rules


US NRA has created a situation where the national rules are directly contradictory to the international rules.

You act like this is a recent development?

It's not even like the US is the only country whose domestic rules differ from the international.

 

[kzin]

You act like this is a recent development?

It's not even like the US is the only country whose domestic rules differ from the international.

So make it worse while gaining nothing?

 

[kzin]

So what about pinning the gun to the front stop.
Clearly a benchrest derived technique but no issue with the butt being in the shoulder.

 

[memilanuk]

So make it worse while gaining nothing?

Never said it was ideal. I think right now, they just separated 'our' rules out from the conventional HP rules - I'm hoping, fingers crossed, that the next edition will start addressing this sorts of things.

If there is language in there that really truly chaps your a$$, I'd suggest sending a note to the NRA Competition dept so the committee can review it at the next meeting - probably this fall - rather than bitching about it here.

So what about pinning the gun to the front stop.
Clearly a benchrest derived technique but no issue with the butt being in the shoulder.

Back when I started in F-class 2004-2005-ish - that was one of the more humorous things: match directors (pretty much all sling shooters at the time) were hard set against allowing front stops, thinking that they let the gun return to the *exact* point of aim every shot. Had to put them behind the gun and let them see how things really worked to disabuse them of that notion...

 

[mike mccormick]

Fortunately the F-Class matches at the club where I shoot are held under CMP rules.
Although I am a lifetime member of the NRA I am no longer a fan of the organization. They wont get another dime out of me until they get back the $17 million that King Wayne walked away with.
Just what does the OPEN in F-Open stand for? The NRAs rules are as outdated as the organization. All of the NRA rules are based upon high power competition with military rifles and iron sights. They still use the big black target center that was designed way back when for iron sights. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against high power competition for those that choose that shooting discipline. The benchrest organizations have their act together because they are run by actual shooters. As far as I am concerned the NRA is more of a political lobbying organization than an actual shooting organization (and a corrupt one at that).
The only thing lower on my list than the NRA is the NY DA. Then again maybe the NY DA inadvertently did the honest NRA members a favor. Wouldn’t it be great if the NRA actually got their act together as far as a legitimate board and relevant rules committees made up of actual shooters.

You really need to look at the origins of F class. It evolved from high power, and was intended as a way for shooters to keep shooting as the body started to give out. A great majority of f classers now have never had a sling around their arm or worn a shooting coat. Half won't even set up a spotting scope to watch trace when scoring.