F-Class Nationals Lodi, Wi

[spclark]

Shots are scored on target according to where the center of impact is calculated AFTER a .308" diameter circle is added, centered on that COI.

Same as the US NRA 30 caliber rule. If you zoom in to the max on an SMT display, you'll see this.

Anything else is a representation that can mislead you as the shot icon isn't true diameter, intended only to be easily seen on a display showing a majority of the target face.

If I'm wrong on this I'm certain Dan, Wayne, Adam, Shawn or somebody else equally knowledgeable will be chiming in.

 

[Alexander-M]

Shots are scored on target according to where the center of impact is calculated AFTER a .308" diameter circle is added, centered on that COI.

Same as the US NRA 30 caliber rule. If you zoom in to the max on an SMT display, you'll see this.

Anything else is a representation that can mislead you as the shot icon isn't true diameter, intended only to be easily seen on a display showing a majority of the target face.

If I'm wrong on this I'm certain Dan, Wayne, Adam, Shawn or somebody else equally knowledgeable will be chiming in.

I believe what you wrote (above), and this from Fredrik S:

"I added a green speck on top of the plot number for shot 15 that would be approximately the size of a 308 bullet hole. With that one it looks like it would still be very close to a 9, but much more plausible to not touch the line.
So definitely the zoom level."

Are correct.

Alex

 

[daniel.chisholm]

Nando-AS, that's a very nice setup to hold your tablet in place while you are shooting.

The Lenovo tablets that WGC will be supplying are "10 inch" models, which would be the diagonal distance on the screen (this link suggests that the dimensions are 9.72"x6.73"x0.35") ..... a typical large tablet, just like a full-size iPad. Shooters and scorekeepers don't *have* to use the two tablets that WGC supplies for each lane, they are of course allowed to use their own tablet or cellphone if they prefer.

Cakes and spclark are correct, bullet diameter is taken into account when the value of a shot is being calculated... just like manually scoring a target, if the edge of the shot hole touches the line you get the higher value, otherwise you don't. At anything other than the maximum zoom level, the numbered shot discs are larger than the actual bullet diameter, just like a 3" spotter disc on a physical target face is, so you can see things better on the display. We added a feature where if you zoom to the absolute maximum setting, the "numbers" on the shot discs go away, and at that point the "shot discs" are actual bullet diameter.... at that point you can usually see and agree that a shot is "just barely in" or "just barely out".

 

[BT1]

Just got home from the f-class match in Montana. Great job by those who work so hard to make a match a success.

I have 300 rounds loaded for the MR at Lodi and still have another 300 to load for the LR

Catching up on the tablet being used at Lodi and thought that we should all be using some kind of case or cover stand. Has to be a PITA to just lean it against a bag or ammo box. Something like this inexpensive case would be safe "not scratching them up" and practical. Just leave the case with the great guys who run the match for the next guy. Not endorsing this one, just as an example.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B8WTNPQ/?tag=accuratescom-20

My 2 cents. Steve

 

[LRCampos]

.

May be I am not understand this very well (being English not my main language): isn't the .308 caliber a standard for all F-Class scoring gages? I thought I read it on NRA Rules...

If so, then the Eletronic Target may represent the bullet hole in diferent sizes to help the shooter visualize the target on the monitor, but the score value must be computed as a .308 diameter hole, independent of the caliber shot, being it a .224 or a .338. Am I right?

LRCampos.

 

[spclark]

...but the score value must be computed as a .308 diameter hole, independent of the caliber shot, being it a .224 or a .338. Am I right?

Correct in that the SMT system scores assuming a .308" dia. bullet made the 'impact' being scored.

I personally don't know anyone shooting .338's regularly though they're certainly legal... without a compensator/brake - illegal under US NRA rules - I doubt they'd last more than a day or two.

 

[saunaking]

I noticed in the info sheet you need to pick up a squadding ticket by 9:30 am on Friday if you want to shoot the practice. Does anyone know what time shooting is supposed to start on Friday? I'm driving in that day and will have to leave really early to get there by that time.

 

[Lbart]

Joel,
in the program just above the 0930, 2nd line down on the page it says "Friday, September 23, 2016, 10:00 AM"

 

[saunaking]

Joel,
in the program just above the 0930, 2nd line down on the page it says "Friday, September 23, 2016, 10:00 AM"

Thanks Larry -
I called Karin yesterday to see if it was possible to check just a 500 yard zero (we never shoot that distance where I live). Hopefully I get there before everyone moves back to 600. Looking forward to seeing a bunch of good friends (crazies) I have met over the last couple years and making some new ones...

 

[XTR]

.

May be I am not understand this very well (being English not my main language): isn't the .308 caliber a standard for all F-Class scoring gages? I thought I read it on NRA Rules...

If so, then the Eletronic Target may represent the bullet hole in diferent sizes to help the shooter visualize the target on the monitor, but the score value must be computed as a .308 diameter hole, independent of the caliber shot, being it a .224 or a .338. Am I right?

LRCampos.

There is no "standard" diameter for F class under US rules. You score based on the the diameter of the hole in the target, though in the case of these targets it looks like they are standardizing with .308.

I believe there are other rules that do standardize with .308. (ICFRA does so if I'm not mistaken)

 

[Ned Ludd]

IIRC, a year or year and a half ago, the NRA was re-writing/updating part of the Highpower Rules and there was an interim period where all bullet holes were supposed to be checked with a .30 cal plug. My understanding is that that temporary rule has since expired, once the updates were finished. According to the 2016 Highpower Rulebook:

14.3 How to Score—Hits will be scored based upon the diameter of the
bullet fired. When a shot hole’s leading edge comes in contact with the outside
of the “X” ring or other scoring rings of a target, it is given the higher value
(including the keyhole or tipped shots even though the hole is elongated to
the bullet’s length rather than being a circle of the bullet’s diameter). X’s
must be scored. A proper scoring gauge, overlay or magnifying glass may be
used to determine the value of close shots. The higher value will be allowed
in those cases where the flange on the gauge touches the scoring ring. Close
shots should be checked for the shooter’s benefit. Scoring gauges will comply
with the following dimensions:

Caliber Flange Diameter (+/- .001)
5.56mm .224
6mm .243
6.5mm .264
7mm .284
7.62mm .308

So the use of a .30 cal hole for all bullets on the e-targets seems to be a function of their increasing use in F-Class competitions. Whether this has been approved or even noticed by the NRA Rules Committee, I have no idea. I'd certainly imagine there was some involvement somewhere. Using a .30 cal hole value would without a doubt be an advantage (as compared to using a bullet diameter-specific plug) for someone shooting a .223 in F-TR, or a 6 mm or similar in F-Open. I have most definitely dropped points in matches with the .223 that would have been "10s" had a .30 cal plug been used to check them. However, I view the use of a "standard" .30 cal hole favorably not for that reason, but because what we should really be concerned about is where the center of the hole was located, not the diameter of the bullet the competitor was using. Why should a shot hole with the exact same center point on the target be a "9" for a competitor shooting a .223, and a "10" for someone using a .308? Standardization of the hole diameter value simply removes that as a variable for shooter using different bullet diameters, and effectively scores their shot based on the the center of the hole, as it should be.

 

[rmist]

Here's another version of an IPAD easel...

 

[whysman]

If you shoot F-Open and can spare $20 or so, go to Amazon and search "gooseneck iPad" (tablet make not really important, this will just drive search results).

There are plenty of them for sale that will easily clamp on your front rest (which is why I specified F Open).

Example:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00O4VAGR8/?tag=accuratescom-20

 

[Immike]

Good job guys, we need something for scoring and coaching too I guess. I just had to make my own also so went with a strip of alum bent 102 deg with a shelf. I installed a tripod adapter for scoring.

 

[BT1]

The discussion about tablet holding options is easy for the shooter. But how does the scorer handle the tablet and mark the shooters score card, or will this be paperless? Shooter signals the scorer he is ready to go for record, clear the screen, then all record shots are recorded and available in the scoring shack? If you wait too long after the screen is cleared to shoot your first record shot, you may forget exactly where that last sighter went. I have followed most of the Lodi threads, so if this has been discussed before please forgive me.

Steve

 

[Mudeat]

None of that is an issue. You just look at the tablet, with the shots being sequential displayed, watching your shooter and the most recent will be displayed on top, and write it down on the card. Watch out for cross fires as theses are very subtle. If you see two shots on the screen in sequence and your shooter only shot one - well, that's a tip off. Also, don't bother to try to make your iPad work -- use the Linova they have available as that's what has been tested and works or its "their" problem. If it rains or cartridges bounce off the screen - no problem for your iPad. You will have a great time, that is, if you are shooting well.

 

[BT1]

Thanks Mudeat.

I was also suggesting how it may be difficult to handle both the Linova tablet and the clip board with the score card on your lap. At least you won't get a stiff neck looking thru a spotting scope. I'm sure all will work it's self out. Looking forward to shooting both MR and LR. I have shot a 2 day match over the SM targets before and enjoyed the experience.

 

[Cakes]

Has it been determined yet if there will be offsets? Vertical, horizontal or both? I have no problem with either with unlimited sighters but the rest of the matches (LR) only have 2. If yes, will it be "public" knowledge as to how much of an offset? An example that has me a bit concerned is; 1) I try to learn some "wind knowledge" with every sighter. 2) With only 2 sighters this is very important for me IMO. 3) Example; I finish match 1 with 3 minutes of wind correction. This is a combination of wind and offset. Match 2 goes totally calm or even worse a strong 180 switch. Normally I would go to "zero" for a calm or take a wag on the wind from the other side. With an offset my "no-wind zero" really isn't a zero because of the offset value unless I "re-zero" my scope to include this. Has my senior moment arrived and this has no basis or is my concern valid. With only two sighters I just hate wasting a shot to "center" it up on target. Eric in DL

 

[dannyjbiggs]

IIRC, a year or year and a half ago, the NRA was re-writing/updating part of the Highpower Rules and there was an interim period where all bullet holes were supposed to be checked with a .30 cal plug. My understanding is that that temporary rule has since expired, once the updates were finished. According to the 2016 Highpower Rulebook:

14.3 How to Score—Hits will be scored based upon the diameter of the
bullet fired. When a shot hole’s leading edge comes in contact with the outside
of the “X” ring or other scoring rings of a target, it is given the higher value
(including the keyhole or tipped shots even though the hole is elongated to
the bullet’s length rather than being a circle of the bullet’s diameter). X’s
must be scored. A proper scoring gauge, overlay or magnifying glass may be
used to determine the value of close shots. The higher value will be allowed
in those cases where the flange on the gauge touches the scoring ring. Close
shots should be checked for the shooter’s benefit. Scoring gauges will comply
with the following dimensions:

Caliber Flange Diameter (+/- .001)
5.56mm .224
6mm .243
6.5mm .264
7mm .284
7.62mm .308

So the use of a .30 cal hole for all bullets on the e-targets seems to be a function of their increasing use in F-Class competitions. Whether this has been approved or even noticed by the NRA Rules Committee, I have no idea. I'd certainly imagine there was some involvement somewhere. Using a .30 cal hole value would without a doubt be an advantage (as compared to using a bullet diameter-specific plug) for someone shooting a .223 in F-TR, or a 6 mm or similar in F-Open. I have most definitely dropped points in matches with the .223 that would have been "10s" had a .30 cal plug been used to check them. However, I view the use of a "standard" .30 cal hole favorably not for that reason, but because what we should really be concerned about is where the center of the hole was located, not the diameter of the bullet the competitor was using. Why should a shot hole with the exact same center point on the target be a "9" for a competitor shooting a .223, and a "10" for someone using a .308? Standardization of the hole diameter value simply removes that as a variable for shooter using different bullet diameters, and effectively scores their shot based on the the center of the hole, as it should be.

I don't know whether this will be helpful or not; but, the NRA High Power Rifle Rule changes effective 2016, paragraph 10.17 Electronic Scoring Targets, in part, states, "The individual competitor's system must be set to the bullet diameter currently being used by the competitor."

Danny Biggs

 

[spclark]

No offsets that I know of. Centers are easily replaced as they're on cardboard backers attached to main target carrier (6'x6') w/Velcro.

You shoot at what you see, get scored according to what shows on the displays for your firing point.