last saturday i picked up my model 70 that i had squared up and rebarreled and headed home to break in barrel. a week later after 82 rounds down barrel, half a bottle of pro shot copper solvent, and some 300 patches it still is a mess of orange steaks after just one shot!!! the barrel is a kreiger 20 cal 11 twist and im shooting 39 gr SBKs with 30gr benchmark. Ive also run some JBs thru on patches looking to maybe smooth the bore up a bit. this is my 2nd kreiger 20 cal barrel, the other is a 9 twist and i run the same components thru it and never had any trouble breaking it in. it has bout 200 thru its bore i still get blue patches out of it but no visible orange streaks and only a few patches to get it clean. im to the point of calling kreiger for there thoughts as i feel like im going no where with this barrel. any suggestions from the wizards here??? THX
Extreme copper fouling in new barrel
- Thread starter fastnflat1
- Start date
Maybe try some different solvent. I use the foaming bore clean on all of my guns. I foam the barrel let soak for about 15 to 20 minutes a few patchs to dry it out then a patch thru with oil on it never have a problem weither I have 50 rounds or 150 rounds thru it. How did you break it in from the start that might have something to do with it as well.
Hillbilly
Hillbilly
The Pro-Shot solvent is promoted as a non toxic and environmentally friendly product. When I am buying a product that is a big red flag for me. I translate that talk to mean it probably won't work.
Get a bottle of Barnes CR-10. It has ammonia in it and works. One trick is to soak a Boresnake in the Barnes, pull it into the barrrel and let it sit for 15-20 minutes. There is nothing unsafe or toxic about ammonia in the concentrations used if you have reasonable ventalation.
Get a bottle of Barnes CR-10. It has ammonia in it and works. One trick is to soak a Boresnake in the Barnes, pull it into the barrrel and let it sit for 15-20 minutes. There is nothing unsafe or toxic about ammonia in the concentrations used if you have reasonable ventalation.
A bore scope will tell you whats going on with the barrel.
thx for the replies gentlemen but im not in question about my cleaning solvent as I know the pro-shot works the best of all others except for the KG-12 cuz i have not tried it yet. All my other barrels clean quickly with the pro-shot, however they do not foul as badly.
Yes i have been through the break-in procedures per kreiger as well and feel that its the barrel itself. It isnt a complete dud as it has shown that it will shoot sub-half inch at 100.
If I could only get it to quit pulling copper I would be completely happy. the bore feels smooth as silk with a patch but the streaking says different. I believe I ll put more rounds through it and see if it improves. if its not improved by the 200 round mark I ll probly be looking for a new tube.
how bout lapping it? anyone familiar with it or had luck doing it?
Yes i have been through the break-in procedures per kreiger as well and feel that its the barrel itself. It isnt a complete dud as it has shown that it will shoot sub-half inch at 100.
If I could only get it to quit pulling copper I would be completely happy. the bore feels smooth as silk with a patch but the streaking says different. I believe I ll put more rounds through it and see if it improves. if its not improved by the 200 round mark I ll probly be looking for a new tube.
how bout lapping it? anyone familiar with it or had luck doing it?
Don't lap it!!!! Of my last 3 Krieger blanks, one had virtually no copper fouling from day 1. The second coppered a minimum amount, then stopped around 8 to 10 rounds. The third that I just put into use with a 6BRX chambering, coppered heavily for the first 15 to 18 rds., then as if my magic stopped. These results are all as seen with my Hawkeye borescope, so I'm not guessing. At 82 rounds fired, yes I also would begin to be concerned and at that point, think I would be approaching the time when I'd contact Krieger. I've never had any premium barrel (Hart, Shilen, Krieger, etc.) require that many shots before the coppering ceased. As suggested a look-see with a borescope may provide some answers. My coppering was not confined to the throat, in fact the throat's were copper free. Major coppering began about 6" in front of the chamber, all the way out to the muzzle. There was not a single reamer or tool mark in any of the barrels. You gotta look inside it. If you're not familiar with what to look for, then a qualified gunsmith (the owner of the borescope?), could evaluate the condition of the bore. If it will involve returning the barrel to Krieger I would remove the powder fouling, but leave the copper in the barrel, have the barrel taken off the receiver & send it back to Krieger. keep us informed of the results.
and that folks is just what i will do! I ll be calling kreiger monday. I ve put 30 more rounds down it today with cleaning and all and still no sign of it giving in. bummer deal!!!
fastnflat1: At well over 100 rounds fired that would be my next move. One of the reasons we buy premium barrels, whatever brand, is to prevent heavy copper fouling. If it didn't matter, we could buy one of the $79.95 barrels that are on the market. Sounds like there is something wrong, and I would dump it in Krieger's lap and let them solve the problem. If the barrel needs to be replaced the question is, who pays for the expense of threading, chambering and fitting?
If Kreiger is at fault, I would imagine that they will take care of the rebarreling/chambering. I know of a gentleman that purchased a new Brux and it had a similar issue. They took care of everything for him in short order. I can't imagine Kreiger not doing the same. Please let us know how it works out for you with them.
talked to kreiger today and they said to send them the gun (dirty) and they will check it out. got it boxed and ready to go out tomarrow. also said that if it is a bad barrel that never should have left the factory they will take care of the fitting and chambering. just hope I dont have to wait 4-6 months for them to make a barrel.
well 4 days after they recieved my gun they say that they cant see anything wrong with it. the copper wasnt coming from the throat but more near the muzzle. nothing is rough or out of place. the man I spoke with tried to blame it on the velocity of 4000FPS and I said I dont believe that b'cuz I have a 9twist 20 cal krieger that I shoot the same bullet at the same velocity and have no trouble with it. after he heehawd around he says that they will send me my gun back and in 4-6 wks they will have a new blank sent to me but im on my own on the fit and chamber.
Well that is interesting. Velocity is their claim as to the issue with excessive copper fouling? What cartridge are you using? I see that it is a 20 caliber, but missed the actual cartridge.
it is a 20 BR shooting the 39gr blitzking. the barrel that is fouling is an 11 twist and I have a 9 twist thats identical to it and shoots the same bullet at the same velocity with no troubles. explain that to me plz.
fastnflat1: That's an interesting response from Krieger. You still did not clarify the cartridge, but if it's a 204 Ruger with the 39 gr. Blitzking, 30 grs. of benchmark seems like a maximum (?) charge. Just looked in the Hodgdon manual, unfortunately they do not list the 39 gr. BK. The 35 gr. Berger is listed as 26.6 maximum and the Hornady 40 gr. V-Max is 25.7. When you get the rifle back you could clean out all the copper and start with some lower velocity loads and see if the coppering continues. I wonder if Krieger addressed the possibility of your bore having a more than normal choke/ tighter bore near the muzzle, as compared to near the chamber. Slugging the bore may also answer that question. And the possibility exists that as you continue to shoot it, the coppering may lessen. Sounds like a bummer: I don't enjoy copper removal either, but at least they are giving you a new barrel, and that's worth around $315. note; We're posting at the same time. Just saw yours and noted that it's a 20BR. Forget everything I said about the 204. I would still suspect a tight bore diameter near the muzzle.
WyleWD
Silver $$ Contributor
For what it's worth..... I have a Kreiger that followed nearly the same path that yours is on. I put around 70-80 rounds through it, went through a couple hundred patches, and half a bottle of copper solvent before it started cleaning up reasonably quick. And it was all in the last 8-10 inches of the barrel that was building up.
The other Kreigers that I've had all started cleaning up easily within 20-30 rounds.
After all that.... it was sure worth it. It is one of the best shooting rifles I have. ;D Good luck with yours and hope it turns out all right for ya.
WD
The other Kreigers that I've had all started cleaning up easily within 20-30 rounds.
After all that.... it was sure worth it. It is one of the best shooting rifles I have. ;D Good luck with yours and hope it turns out all right for ya.
WDGet a load of this SH*T!! after thinkin over the weekend I called krieger to see about makin a change to the contour of the new blank they were to send me and get a tracking number on my rifle. the fella I talked to said the contour change wouldnt be a problem if they havent started it yet and he would check and call back...he calls back and says its already contoured and waitin rifleing, OK not a problem. How bout my rifle you are sending back you have a tracking number?...Uhh we aren't putting on the new barrel?...No I was told you people didnt do that anymore cuz you are to busy, you are supposed to be sending my complete rifle back to me ASAP and a new barrel blank when you get it done...OK let me check on your gun and I ll call you back... He calls back and says we cant give you back the old barrel and a new blank, thats against our policy...YOU GOTTA BE KIDDN ME!!!!! An agreement was made last week on the phone that since you wouldnt rebarrel my gun or reimburse to have my smith rebarrel that you were sending my gun with old barrel back ASAP and sending a new blank when completed...who did you agree to with that?... and I told him who I talked to and He said he would check into it and call me back... He calls back and says he talked to that fella and the fella above him and they say that no agreement like that was made.... I WAS FLOORED AND STILL AM, WTF ARE THEY TRYING TO DO HERE?!!!!!!!!!!!? To make a long story a little shorter the man I talked to last week is a LIAR!!!!! and the plant operations manager is supposed to call me in the A.M. How can they even BEGIN to think that when I sent a COMPLETE rifle up to them, that they can just send me back parts of a gun to be put together by a smith at my cost???????? My blood is BOILING!!!!!!!
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