EXTENDING COMPETITION BARREL ACCURACY THROUGH BORE HONING MAINTENANCE

[normmatzen]

And, those of us that shoot Long Range bench rest, a club match is 3 targets of 5 shots plus sighters (light gun)and 3 targets of 10 shots plus sighters (heavy gun).
Nationals are twice that number of targets . Usually, a club match is only one distance but some nationals do 600 and 1000 back to back for twice as many shots or total of 12 targets of 5 shots plus sighters and 12 targets of 10 shots plus sighters.

That makes about 75 rounds for a club match and up to 300 rounds for a national with 600 and 1000 yd.

 

[johara1]

If you shoot IBS at 1000 and you win your relay in both light and heavy you will shoot 30 for record plus sighters and they are doubles so you need 60 plus sighters …. so at least 100. If it both Sat and Sunday, you had better have 200 plus……… jim

 

[fgregorio]

I agree with you.
I'm in the process of ordering 2 Kriegers

 

[hogan]

Precision Shooting may just be a misnomer...

I have come to that determination. There is no real accepted science or methodology for handloading, barrel care, chamber dynamics. I guess nobody even really agrees on proper forend rest and rear bag setups.

Really have to put the barrel discussion here into perspective. Of course, I don't even own a $900 bore scope, so I'm relying on Dan Lilja, Boots Obermeyer and maybe Gale MacMIllan's writings on barrel wear and care, plus some common sense. First most guys these days are convinced Stainless Steel is the way to go. Never mind that the steel is harder to drill and cut, or that it has been shown to shed in layers when it is burned into brittleness, the kind of potholing effect of barrel wear. Still it is what buyers desire, so that is what barrelmakers make.

Talking what? About the detrimental effects of JB Bore Past and even valve grinding/lapping compounds like Clover? On stainless steel? Have any damn idea how much effort it takes to even grind mild steel on a grinding surface by hand, much less using a flannel patch run on a cleaning rod? I recently was lapping a Leupold 1" QR scope ring set with a i" heavy steel bar and 400grit sandpaper. I finished up with Clover 200 & 600 grit and barely removed any material from the mild steel Leupy scope rings working at it for an hour, hour and a half. POINT IS: How is anything like JB Bore Paste going to damage a stainless steel barrel? It can't and won't. ETA: I was lapping the rings to be a bit oversize for a 26mm tubed scope. Lot of work to maybe get .0002" material removed...

Chrome-Moly barrels, getting back to Dan, Boots, & Gale (RIP) don't pothole, they crack. They don't lose chunks of material once they begin to go, they just develop fine series of cracks. CM barrels, therefore, have longer useful barrel life as the microscopic cracks are way less disruptive to bullet transition and are more likely to fill with gilding bullet material than the stainless barrel suffering throat potholing.

If you know about knives, much easier to sharpen a non-stainless blade than stainless. Might not hold the edge as long, but way easier to restore proper edge. Something to do with the amount of chrome in the metal formulation.

Likely, the chrome-lined CM barrel is most capable of long life and quality precision as FN-Herstal's Police series custom rifles have proven. The extra care to produce a chrome-lined match barrel means the barrel has to be uniform in diameter for lands and grooves to likely .0001" so that the plating process is uniform and consistent. Probably these barrels and other match-grade chrome-lined are "better" than other highly touted precision pieces because they have to be because of the additional plating process.

Anyone ever use the Outers Foul-Out electronic lead and copper cleaning system? There is a non-invasive, totally passive use of electical conductivity to remove lead or copper plus fouling. To some degree fouling does insulate individual layers of metal and require the fouling be brushed away, but to what degree does using a Foul-Out bore cleaner help preserve the barrel?


My expectation of Precision Shooting is an entirely understood baseline for all the major variables. We can assume a good crisp trigger, a bedded or bedding block stock with free-floating barrel and receiver and boltface within specs so as not to introduce problems. Not to say "an accuracy job" on the receiver; I have proven to my satisfaction that short oal chamber and quality handloaded ammunition is much more critical than a blueprinted action. If you are buying stuff that needs that remedial work you aren't within the understood baseline... I think you own your own reamers and set your headspace to .0005 over Go-Gauge length or even much under it, if your virgin brass measures .01-.03 under Go-Gauge length as I have seen some measure.

Kind of a ramble, but I think it really is on topic.

 

[BoydAllen]

Generally I like things to be tight, but you will understand my skepticism about the requirement for super tight chamber headspace when the cartridge that owns short range benchrest is fire formed to 6PPC from .220 Russian, and the one that has been showing its stuff at 600 and 1,000, the Dasher, has it shoulder fire formed quite a bit. I think that if the chamber is not sloppy, and the FL die is a good match, that some excellent results can be had. Most of the evil that is done to brass is because of really ugly FL die specifications, and not having good control of shoulder bump. If you want a straight hunting action buy a clone, and if you want to shoot benchrest, a benchrest action of almost any vintage is a pretty good place to start. None of this will overcome a mediocre barrel.

 

[johara1]

Boyd, Two most important things in accuracy is the barrel and bullets the rest falls in line be hind these. I will not compromise on these, both are expendable but i do not abuse them…… jim

 

[Rtheurer]

Tag

 

[hogan]

Boyd,

The PPC guys don't fire their matches with unformed .220 Russian brass, right? It is fire-formed and then considered to be match-ready. I have some wildcatting experience, and also have gotten what I consider "excellent" results from mediocre factory barrels.

Is a chrome-moly Lilja barrel mediocre or less than a Lilja stainless because it is less expensive and less in demand? Probably most 'knowledgeable shooters" think so...

JB Bore Paste applied on flannel patch wrapped on a jag or brass brush used on a Dewey coated rod with Dewey bore guide gonna take the gilt-edge off a custom barrel; Hart or otherwise? Of course not... Doubtful that even 600 grit Clover valve lapping compound will if used judiciously. Presumably these gritty substances would be applied to cut through thick fouling which has already built up to level that impairs precision results. How many ten-thousandths or hundred thousandths of steel are going to be removed every pass with the grit-laden patch? Probably none that is measurable. Maybe after a lengthy scrubbing session with continued renewed application damage could be done, but who other than a barrel maker works a lap in that manner?

So much shooting is ritual Ju-Ju. More with every level of effort and expectation.

Always a reason to accept more variables:
-Arbor press loading is too slow
-I need a repeater not a solid body action
-Stainless barrels are "better".
-Cut-rifling is "better"
-Variable scope is "better"
-Sweet-spot has to be found
-Longer barrels are better

How much barrel life goes to find the "sweet-spot"?
If not pursuing competition for smallest group size at known distance, is "sweet-spot" a valid pursuit or waste of time, components, and barrel life? Or is it only about confidence, an acquired ritual of concern? Are there known and acknowledged absolutes or guidelines? If so, among those who read/post here, could they be acknowledged or challenged?

Precision Repeatability seems the underlying unifying effort for those who attend this site. Think there is any way to focus more steadily on principles that contribute to attaining that goal?

 

[BoydAllen]

Good post. I have spent a lot of time with factory rifles and barrels. I believe that if it works it works, and while I am always open to learning new stuff, at the end of the day, I believe what my own experiences tell me. On the PPC, you are right. My point was that once a case has been fire formed to a chamber, if the FL die is a very close match, you will have the same situation that is common in short range benchrest, and your cases should be very straight, and fit your chamber closely, without any binding.

As far as finding a sweet spot goes, for me, it does not take very many rounds at all. I do my workups loading at the range, on days when the wind is cooperating, shooting over a couple of wind flags, off of a good bench, rest and bags. I am always getting on fellows for how they work up loads, loading at home, shooting without flags, off of rests and benches that are not the best, wasting a lot of their barrels lives and components. I do it differently, and it works. Usually, I am able to come away with a good load in relatively short order, without a great number of shots fired in the process, but that requires a rifle that has no mechanical issues, since no load can compensate for a faulty rifle.

The biggest problem that I find with many shooters is that because they have been shooting for a long time, they think that they know what they are doing, even if they do not, and this makes them virtually unteachable, even if they have the evidence in front of them that you consistently get better results than they do. I have said it many times. I would rather teach a woman, who is not afraid of guns, and wants to learn more, than most men.